WoodGas : Messages : 43505-43536 of 47799

#43505

From: darrel licks <d_licks@...>
Date: Thu Apr 5, 2012 10:34 am
Subject: Re: Late night Listering

wow! i thought the three stooges were dead!
refute ron O's attack on me later...
working with kenny B, he smoked 2 of my Darlington's before i got him to build
the circuit i designed in the first place, (you dont have to call me Darling,
Darlington you never even called me by my name;) he didnt like the Altoids
version.  am assed out of this project courtesy  of Juliet hasty
so again, thanks jay!! so good luck morons.....
--- On Thu, 4/5/12, WoodGas@yahoogroups.com <WoodGas@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

From: WoodGas@yahoogroups.com <WoodGas@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [WoodGas] Digest Number 3591
To: WoodGas@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, April 5, 2012, 2:40 AM






WoodGas

































       WoodGas


     Messages In This Digest      (22
               Messages)




                       1.1.

    Re: Late night Listering
   From:
       josef mc
                       1.2.

    Re: Late night Listering
   From:
       Nathan & Rochelle
                       1.3.

    Re: Late night Listering
   From:
       Ken Boak
                       1.4.

    Re: Late night Listering
   From:
       Ken Boak
                       1.5.

    Re: Late night Listering
   From:
       Mike LaRosa
                       1.6.

    Re: Late night Listering
   From:
       steven nelson
                       1.7.

    Re: Late night Listering
   From:
       Greg
                       1.8.

    Re: Late night Listering
   From:
       ron ohler
                       1.9.

    Re: Late night Listering
   From:
       ron ohler
                       1.10.

    Re: Late night Listering
   From:
       steven nelson
                       1.11.

    Re: Late night Listering
   From:
       jim
                       1.12.

    Re: Late night Listering
   From:
       jim


                       2.1.

    Re: Round 2
   From:
       logininn
                       2.2.

    Re: Round 2
   From:
       mogasification


                       3a.

    CWG
   From:
       Tim Welty
                       3b.

    Re: CWG
   From:
       sabbadess@...
                       3c.

    Re: CWG
   From:
       mchannon
                       3d.

    Re: CWG
   From:
       Stuart Perkins
                       3e.

    Re: CWG
   From:
       Kevin
                       3f.

    Re: CWG
   From:
       Tim Welty


                       4a.

    newbi in SE Alaska
   From:
       hoonahsteve
                       4b.

    Re: newbi in SE Alaska
   From:
       Ralph Callaway



           View All Topics | Create New Topic


            Messages



         1.1.



         Re: Late night Listering

     Posted by:      "josef mc"
       mciceteade@...


           mciceteade



       Wed Apr 4, 2012 4:32 am        (PDT)





       since you said it was fine at first and after a while it started with the

back fireing until the engine died.

suggestion:

you think it could be a cylinder temperature compression induced self

ignition?

maybe the compression on these engines is higher and causes the fuel to get

too hot when the engine is up to operating temperature. could this cause a

self ignition like on diesel fuels?

or a temperature sensor could change the amount of air given to the engine

(I`m out of chocke mode) I had that temperature sensor fail on my audi some

time back and once it got warm it started stuttering.

maybe this helps

cu joe



On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 2:17 PM, jim <jim@allpowerlabs. org> wrote:



> **

>

>

>

>

> --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups .com, "anthonymeschke" <anthonymeschke@ ...>

> wrote:

> >

> > Could you perhaps explain the gas ionization that you and Jim were

> talking about. I looked it up a little bit but could find anything in

> laymans terms. I seems it is common with CNG and hydrogen rich fuels.

> >

> > Also how could this befixed or avoided?

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> > Anthony Meschke

> >

>

> anthony, i'd be very interested in seeing what you've found on this. we

> haven't been able to find anything yet, only speculation from first

> principles, and a fix that in fact works.

>

> on the kubota engines at 3000rpm for 50hz markets, we were having lots of

> backfiring problems. things would be ok on start and short run, but with a

> bit of time would start to backfire and ultimately go into a runaway

> backfire until the engine died. then the mystery started.

>

> we tore through all mixture and ignition issues. had theories on the

> mixture being wrong due to the O2 sensor or code. thought the ignition was

> dropping out due to too low volt to coil, bad coils, grounding issues.

> actually tore through the whole ground handling issue in the automation and

> ignition. oscilloscopes and whatnot, went through everything and couldn't

> find the problem. there was spark all the way to the sparkplug wire while

> running. everything looked fine. to make matters worse, it ran perfectly on

> propane, but as soon as went back to wood gas, no go. three weeks went by

> and frustration mounted.

>

> on a random thought we speculated that maybe the coil discharge was in

> fact happening, but the gap was too small and/or the wood gas fuel was

> doing something so that the coil could discharge to ground without enough

> resistive potential to get the spark. we pulled the plugs again, increased

> the gap from .26 to .34 or so, and everything was suddenly fine. we cursed

> the engine gods.

>

> the current theory is that hydrogen is a very highly conductive gas. this

> will reduce resistance across the gap, and potentially to a degree that the

> discharge can happen without little to no spark. maybe it also has certain

> ionization characteristics that could make this even worse. maybe steam has

> some impact on this too, though i haven't heard of this one.

>

> i couldn't find any references to this on ch4 or h2 engines, but i didn't

> look too closely. we wanted to do more research on it, but have yet to. if

> you have found things on this i'd love to hear them. it was a very odd

> mystery.

>

> this could potentially be what is happening with the lister now that it is

> at higher compression. hydrogen likely gets more conductive at higher

> temps, though i've yet to look this up. ionization would get worse/better

> too.

>

> i'd pull the gap out to .035-.04 and see if all is happy suddenly.

>

> j

>

> > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups .com, ron ohler <ohler_ron@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Hi,

> > > Sorry I've failed to blog much of what has been happening here with

> the Lister project. I've enjoyed my time here and meeting new folks. The

> APL crew has nearly doubled in their numbers since I was last here and a

> few of the new faces that I have worked with are truly super folks.Â  Ken

> has been our team leader and very much up to the task at hand. I'm quite

> impressed with his knowledge and drive.

> > > The Lister run this weekend has not been as successful as when Mike

> and I ran it in Oct, 2010. This is in no way a failure by anyone involved.

> > > We had the engine running and pulling 2400 watts. I did not feel it

> ran as well as I had recalled.

> > > I've felt that something - either compression or ignition related -

> was limiting the power output to less than it produced before.

> > > Yesterday was nearly a total disappointment.

> > > I had some concerns that possibly the engine was laboring under too

> high a compression level. Marcus and I discussed this. I presented an idea

> of shimming the C.O.P. to increase the precombustion chamber volume in

> order to reduce the compression. I did some volume calculations of the

> thickness of the shim and gasket used to lower the compression in 2010. It

> would take shimming the COP out .800inches to accomplish the same amount of

> reduction in compression. Marcus and I decidedwe couldn't do that but half

> was probably safe for the threads to hold. I made 3 shims for this. A .300,

> .400 and .500 thick. Ken wanted to continue to obtain base line performance

> from the stock compression and I wanted to at least know if the engine

> would start from cold(60dF) with approximately 15:1 compression rather than

> the stock 17:1.Â  It would start for me back in Oct 2010 at 13:1 if I

> preheated the intake air or certainly would have had I used ether. Once

> warm it started

> > > easily without any additional heat. While Marcus was disconnecting the

> exhaust to the pyrocoil I quickly installed the COP with the .400 shim and

> gave it a whirl. It fired right up - giving Marcus a face full of diesel

> exhaust.

> > > We spent some time rearranging the configuration of the exhaust into

> the pyrocoil to reduce some of the heat recovery as we we cooling the

> exhaust leaving the pyrocoil to below the condensation point. The result

> was that we had sooty water dripping out of the flex pipe to the muffler.

> Messy stuff. The Harley-Davidson muffler Andy found in one of the trailers

> did a decent job of reducing the noise - as Andy kept saying - It doesn't

> sound like a Harley.

> > > Then, nothing we tried made the engine run as well as it had when we

> first got it running - ahhh - Saturday(?). It seemed that rather than

> gaining ground - we went backward. At times it ran like a hit-and-miss

> engine. Other times it back fired repeatedly. I thought this to indicate

> too lean a mixture as this was my common experience with gasoline. Making

> the mixture richer lead to reduced backfires but then seemed to limit rpm.

> Ken kept reworking the ignition unit trying in vain to get it to work

> properly. Components and solder joints were failing due to either

> electronic issues or vibration. I tried burning the soot off of the spark

> plug with a torch but nothing produced positive results. It seemed the

> harder we tried - the more we failed. I had a low blood sugar event after

> planning my day around a $25 pizza I had in the fridge that wasn't there

> when I needed it. Most unpleasant. Ken tried removing the micro controller

> from the ignition so that we

> > > would just have a simple hall effect triggered ignition. Even that

> quit on him. Poor guy was really at wits end.

> > > We talked with Jim M a bit last night and he offered some ideas of

> what they had run into on what is believed to be gas ionization at the

> spark plug. Made a lot of sense to me. Possibly Ken can get an ignition

> driver together from what we have left - we've killed a number of

> components - and try some gap changes on the plug.

> > > Today is a unknown. Andy and I had hoped to bop around a bit being

> tourists before going home tomorrow. It is light overcast right now at 9am.

> > > Best regards,

> > > Ron O

> > > Â

> > >

> > >

> > > --- On Sun, 4/1/12, Mike LaRosa <ook187@> wrote:

> > >

> > > From: Mike LaRosa <ook187@>

> > > Subject: [WoodGas] Re: Late night Listering

> > > To: WoodGas@yahoogroups .com

> > > Date: Sunday, April 1, 2012, 3:11 PM

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Â

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Ken & Ron O, Glad to hear the rare rain is letting up. Also glad to

> hear that the spark system is back on line. It worked sweet when I was

> there but the engine was at the lower compression ratio with the milk in

> crankcase. Michael from Israel did most of the wiring if I recall right. I

> don't mess much with integrated circuits. I would be more inclined to clip

> a stick on there and have it hit a reed switch or just use a magnet with a

> vacuum reed switch to get the job done but it was nice to adjust the timing

> electronically. I think of when I was a kid and we would clip baseball

> cards to the struts on our bicycles to get buzzed by the wheel spokes so

> that the bike would sound like a motorcycle, if you catch my drift. As you

> now know this sensitive electronic stuff is subject to instant destruction

> and it dies anyway just from sitting around as it is all made from

> biodegradable plastics. For the third world market it would be best to go

> back to a

> > > somewhat mechanical device. That's my 2 cents .. Give it some thought

> and please get back to me on it .. Thanks, Mike LaRosa

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups .com, Ken Boak <ken.boak@> wrote:

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Hi All

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > So - the "electronics guy" fried the electronic ignition circuit

> yesterday

> > >

> > > > evening just as the rain started - doh!

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Now rebuilt and working well - new Hall sensor, new microcontroller

> and new

> > >

> > > > LED. I am so glad that I packed spares back in October 2010.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Been running the Lister in dual fuel mode - but now ready to do spark

> > >

> > > > ignition.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Going to build up a GCU (gasifier control unit) with a bunch of

> > >

> > > > thermocouples so we can datalog all the Key temperatures of the

> pyrocoil

> > >

> > > > and exhaust system.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Ron is working on getting some useful heat out of the coolant with a

> flat

> > >

> > > > plate heatexchanger, whilst another crew are working on the "lobster

> > >

> > > > boiler" load bank (photos later)

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Lots still to do - but making good progress now on all fronts - we

> have a

> > >

> > > > great team here and the sun is shining down on us!

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Ken

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >

> >

>

>

>



--

Please check out my website, it shows one alternative for us to learn how

to built your own Off the grid Power and Heat source. It utilizes a

combined heat and power technology more common in Europe. It has been a

hobby of mine for years.

<http://www.OneAlter native.US>www.OneAlternative .US

check out my fundraising campain



http://igg.me/ p/68702?a= 285001



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








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             Messages in this topic
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         1.2.



         Re: Late night Listering

     Posted by:      "Nathan & Rochelle"
       nathansurendran@...


           nathansurendran



       Wed Apr 4, 2012 4:56 am        (PDT)





       Hey guys, sorry to hear of your frustrations trying to fettle that Lister.



I came across this site http://www.dieselga s.co.nz/products /dualfuelkits. htm
the other day, and it helped me to understand conceptually what you're trying to
achieve I think? This video in particular : http://www.dieselga s.co.nz/videos/
dg_system_ video.wmv : it's 65Mb. Sorry to those on dial up...



Been really struggling to figure out if syngas into a diesel Toyota Hilux is a
route I want to explore. Seems a lot more complex than petrol engines, but
they're way more commmon down here than petrol. If (when) fuel supply runs
short, you'd need some biodiesel on top of your wood, and those components look
expensive! Anyone else any experience in that direction?



Cold mornings here but 20degC by mid afternoon here. Can't tell when winter will
arrive, after 2 weeks of sunshine.



Looking to get into the hills after a Stag this long weekend. May head over to
the edge of fiordland away from the city a bit... Too many trigger happy people
in the local woods!



--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups .com, ron ohler <ohler_ron@. ..> wrote:

>

> Hi,

> Sorry I've failed to blog much of what has been happening here with the Lister
project. I've enjoyed my time here and meeting new folks. The APL crew has
nearly doubled in their numbers since I was last here and a few of the new faces
that I have worked with are truly super folks.Â  Ken has been our team leader
and very much up to the task at hand. I'm quite impressed with his knowledge and
drive.

> The Lister run this weekend has not been as successful as when Mike and I ran
it in Oct, 2010. This is in no way a failure by anyone involved.

> We had the engine running and pulling 2400 watts. I did not feel it ran as
well as I had recalled.

> I've felt that something - either compression or ignition related - was
limiting the power output to less than it produced before.

> Yesterday was nearly a total disappointment.

> I had some concerns that possibly the engine was laboring under too high a
compression level. Marcus and I discussed this. I presented an idea of shimming
the C.O.P. to increase the precombustion chamber volume in order to reduce the
compression. I did some volume calculations of the thickness of the shim and
gasket used to lower the compression in 2010. It would take shimming the COP out
.800inches to accomplish the same amount of reduction in compression. Marcus and
I decidedwe couldn't do that but half was probably safe for the threads to hold.
I made 3 shims for this. A .300, .400 and .500 thick. Ken wanted to continue to
obtain base line performance from the stock compression and I wanted to at least
know if the engine would start from cold(60dF) with approximately 15:1
compression rather than the stock 17:1.Â  It would start for me back in Oct
2010 at 13:1 if I preheated the intake air or certainly would have had I used
ether. Once warm it
  started

>  easily without any additional heat. While Marcus was disconnecting the
exhaust to the pyrocoil I quickly installed the COP with the .400 shim and gave
it a whirl. It fired right up - giving Marcus a face full of diesel exhaust.

> We spent some time rearranging the configuration of the exhaust into the
pyrocoil to reduce some of the heat recovery as we we cooling the exhaust
leaving the pyrocoil to below the condensation point. The result was that we had
sooty water dripping out of the flex pipe to the muffler. Messy stuff. The
Harley-Davidson muffler Andy found in one of the trailers did a decent job of
reducing the noise - as Andy kept saying - It doesn't sound like a Harley.

> Then, nothing we tried made the engine run as well as it had when we first got
it running - ahhh - Saturday(?). It seemed that rather than gaining ground - we
went backward. At times it ran like a hit-and-miss engine. Other times it back
fired repeatedly. I thought this to indicate too lean a mixture as this was my
common experience with gasoline. Making the mixture richer lead to reduced
backfires but then seemed to limit rpm. Ken kept reworking the ignition unit
trying in vain to get it to work properly. Components and solder joints were
failing due to either electronic issues or vibration. I tried burning the soot
off of the spark plug with a torch but nothing produced positive results. It
seemed the harder we tried - the more we failed. I had a low blood sugar event
after planning my day around a $25 pizza I had in the fridge that wasn't there
when I needed it. Most unpleasant. Ken tried removing the micro controller from
the ignition so that we

>  would just have a simple hall effect triggered ignition. Even that quit on
him. Poor guy was really at wits end.

> We talked with Jim M a bit last night and he offered some ideas of what they
had run into on what is believed to be gas ionization at the spark plug. Made a
lot of sense to me. Possibly Ken can get an ignition driver together from what
we have left - we've killed a number of components - and try some gap changes on
the plug.

> Today is a unknown. Andy and I had hoped to bop around a bit being tourists
before going home tomorrow. It is light overcast right now at 9am.

> Best regards,

> Ron O

> Â

>

>

> --- On Sun, 4/1/12, Mike LaRosa <ook187@...> wrote:

>

> From: Mike LaRosa <ook187@...>

> Subject: [WoodGas] Re: Late night Listering

> To: WoodGas@yahoogroups .com

> Date: Sunday, April 1, 2012, 3:11 PM

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Â

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>       Ken & Ron O, Glad to hear the rare rain is letting up. Also glad to hear
that the spark system is back on line. It worked sweet when I was there but the
engine was at the lower compression ratio with the milk in crankcase. Michael
from Israel did most of the wiring if I recall right. I don't mess much with
integrated circuits. I would be more inclined to clip a stick on there and have
it hit a reed switch or just use a magnet with a vacuum reed switch to get the
job done but it was nice to adjust the timing electronically. I think of when I
was a kid and we would clip baseball cards to the struts on our bicycles to get
buzzed by the wheel spokes so that the bike would sound like a motorcycle, if
you catch my drift. As you now know this sensitive electronic stuff is subject
to instant destruction and it dies anyway just from sitting around as it is all
made from biodegradable plastics. For the third world market it would be best to
go back to a

>  somewhat mechanical device. That's my 2 cents .. Give it some thought and
please get back to me on it .. Thanks, Mike LaRosa

>

>

>

> --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups .com, Ken Boak <ken.boak@> wrote:

>

> >

>

> > Hi All

>

> >

>

> > So - the "electronics guy" fried the electronic ignition circuit yesterday

>

> > evening just as the rain started - doh!

>

> >

>

> > Now rebuilt and working well - new Hall sensor, new microcontroller and new

>

> > LED. I am so glad that I packed spares back in October 2010.

>

> >

>

> > Been running the Lister in dual fuel mode  - but now ready to do spark

>

> > ignition.

>

> >

>

> > Going to build up a GCU  (gasifier control unit) with a bunch of

>

> > thermocouples so we can datalog all the Key temperatures of the pyrocoil

>

> > and exhaust system.

>

> >

>

> > Ron is working on getting some useful heat out of the coolant with a flat

>

> > plate heatexchanger, whilst another crew are working on the "lobster

>

> > boiler" load bank (photos later)

>

> >

>

> > Lots still to do  - but making good progress now on all fronts - we have a

>

> > great team here and the sun is shining down on us!

>

> >

>

> > Ken

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>








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         1.3.



         Re: Late night Listering

     Posted by:      "Ken Boak"
       ken.boak@...


           ken_boak



       Wed Apr 4, 2012 1:50 pm        (PDT)





       So after a little light rain yesterday evening  - the California sun is
now

shining on Lister Land.



Ron O.  wisely ditched the home made spark ignition circuit and made up a

bracket for the MSD inductive pickup.



The Lister is now running sweetly around 600 rpm on woodgas under the

watchful eye of Andy Schofield.  This afternoon we hope to get some

electrical power measurements - before Andy heads to the airport around 5pm.



I'd like to put out an extended thanks to Ron and Andy  - who stuck with

this project and really made it happen. Ron was making brackets at 11pm

last night, when I was propping up a bar. You guys are the best and I

cannot thank you enough for your wisdom, experience and tenacity.



Full report to follow when I get some free time.



Ken



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








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         1.4.



         Re: Late night Listering

     Posted by:      "Ken Boak"
       ken.boak@...


           ken_boak



       Wed Apr 4, 2012 2:48 pm        (PDT)





       Hi All



The 6hp Lister is now running sweetly at 17:1 compression ratio on woodgas

and producing about 2750 electrical watts when maxxed out.



Incidently, the original 6hp Lister Startomatic genset alternator was only

rated at 2500W - so we are right in the zone.



Woodgas works well at  17:1  - so forget the rumours, the idle back chat

and get converting those diesels to woodgas. We now have an open source

demonstrable system -  right here at APL.



It's been a long drawn out project - but thanks to the dedicated and

determined help of Ron Ohler, Marcus Hardwick Andy Schofield, and all the

gang who came by last weekend we have finally got our act together.



- Full report and video to follow shortly on youtube and APL GEK Wiki.



Ken



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








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         1.5.



         Re: Late night Listering

     Posted by:      "Mike LaRosa"
       ook187@...


           ook187



       Wed Apr 4, 2012 2:53 pm        (PDT)





       Hi Ken, They are both the "get er done" kind of guys in a world gone nuts.
I hope they both make it back home in good shape and we can play some in May
with the trucks and chunkers here in the midwest .. Mike LaRosa



--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups .com, Ken Boak <ken.boak@.. .> wrote:

>

> So after a little light rain yesterday evening  - the California sun is now

> shining on Lister Land.

>

> Ron O.  wisely ditched the home made spark ignition circuit and made up a

> bracket for the MSD inductive pickup.

>

> The Lister is now running sweetly around 600 rpm on woodgas under the

> watchful eye of Andy Schofield.  This afternoon we hope to get some

> electrical power measurements - before Andy heads to the airport around 5pm.

>

> I'd like to put out an extended thanks to Ron and Andy  - who stuck with

> this project and really made it happen. Ron was making brackets at 11pm

> last night, when I was propping up a bar. You guys are the best and I

> cannot thank you enough for your wisdom, experience and tenacity.

>

> Full report to follow when I get some free time.

>

>

>

> Ken

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>








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         1.6.



         Re: Late night Listering

     Posted by:      "steven nelson"
       teamkiss2001@...


           teamkiss2001



       Wed Apr 4, 2012 3:00 pm        (PDT)





       MSD is pretty hard to beat. They do make about the best ignition systems
and components on the planet. They are worth the price of admission in most
applications and I would bet they will fire even with unusual fuel mixtures
reliably (even wood gas). TheÂ completeÂ systems also provide's about 18-23
degrees ofÂ continuousÂ  spark during the entire ignition event. They also
have some nice add on modules for automotive use that allows remote (dashboard)
timing adjustments. That's very cool stuff.. Check this one out for 1 cylinder
engines..

http://www.jegs. com/p/MSD- Ignition/ MSD-Powersports- Small-Engine- Ignition-
Controls/ 1250682/10002/ -1Â



____________ _________ _________ __

  From: Ken Boak <ken.boak@gmail. com>

To: WoodGas@yahoogroups .com

Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 1:50 PM

Subject: Re: [WoodGas] Re: Late night Listering





Â

So after a little light rain yesterday evening  - the California sun is now

shining on Lister Land.



Ron O.  wisely ditched the home made spark ignition circuit and made up a

bracket for the MSD inductive pickup.



The Lister is now running sweetly around 600 rpm on woodgas under the

watchful eye of Andy Schofield.  This afternoon we hope to get some

electrical power measurements - before Andy heads to the airport around 5pm.



I'd like to put out an extended thanks to Ron and Andy  - who stuck with

this project and really made it happen. Ron was making brackets at 11pm

last night, when I was propping up a bar. You guys are the best and I

cannot thank you enough for your wisdom, experience and tenacity.



Full report to follow when I get some free time.



Ken



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








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         1.7.



         Re: Late night Listering

     Posted by:      "Greg"
       a31ford@...


           the_a31ford



       Wed Apr 4, 2012 7:31 pm        (PDT)







  Ken,



Congrats on getting it running, 17:1 is about maximum for compression, as
evolved gas can and does have different fractions (mainly when running "other
than wood" eg: MSW or RDW), I would play it safe, and stick to 16-17 as an
absolute maximum.



Keep Up the GREAT work !!



Greg Manning



--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups .com, Ken Boak <ken.boak@.. .> wrote:

>

> Hi All

>

> The 6hp Lister is now running sweetly at 17:1 compression ratio on woodgas

> and producing about 2750 electrical watts when maxxed out.

>

> Incidently, the original 6hp Lister Startomatic genset alternator was only

> rated at 2500W - so we are right in the zone.

>

> Woodgas works well at  17:1  - so forget the rumours, the idle back chat

> and get converting those diesels to woodgas. We now have an open source

> demonstrable system -  right here at APL.

>

> It's been a long drawn out project - but thanks to the dedicated and

> determined help of Ron Ohler, Marcus Hardwick Andy Schofield, and all the

> gang who came by last weekend we have finally got our act together.

>

> - Full report and video to follow shortly on youtube and APL GEK Wiki.

>

>

> Ken

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>








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         1.8.



         Re: Late night Listering

     Posted by:      "ron ohler"
       ohler_ron@...


           reoair



       Wed Apr 4, 2012 8:02 pm        (PDT)





       Hi Anthony,

Our wood gas is a fairly high hydrogen fuel. The heat recovery we were doing
would aid in the decomposition of the water in the fuel which in theory would
increase the hydrogen production.

Jim said they had run into issues in the past of unexplained improper running.
They were lead to believe it was the result of fuel ionization at the plug gap
intermittently grounding the plug and leading to misfires. Increasing the plug
gap cured the problem leading to a belief that their hypothesis was correct.
Based on this information and what we were experiencing I am lead to believe
that this was possibly what we were experiencing.

Andy and I stayed at the project on Wednesday but kept having the ignition fail
every time we tried to get it to work. Ken would tear himself away from the
100kw Powertainer to quickly try the unit -even modifying it several times on
the test bench he had set up.Â  He would get it to work - then only to stop
working when reinstalled. We spent the day trying various changes and I finally
bypassed a connector in the sensor lead to no avail. We gave up on the ignition
figuring that the hall effect sensor had failed.

Andy tried to find a simple self contained magneto after seeing one on a ALJ(?)
motorcycle up in a mezzanine at APL. I went off and pouted.

I actually took a break for a bit and then looked at the MSD 6AJ system that was
on a supercharged engine Jim has in the shop. I did some simple tests and
figured I could rig it up on the Lister so went at it making the adapter to
mount the large MSD sensor. This had previous damage to it's sensor face so it
required close proximity to the trigger - at this point it was a nut I taped to
the flywheel. There is some concern for the tape retaining the nut so this was
just for a quick test without a bunch of bystanders. I increased the spark plug
gap to an estimated .035inches.

We took a break for dinner and returned about midnight. We fired off the GEK and
then I noted the feed auger motor was getting hot. A quick check revealed that
the feed auger had jammed - apparently on some long splintery chips that got
past the sorting operation. The hopper still had a fair mount of fuel in it so
it was not an easy task to empty and see what was the problem. I tried clearing
the auger by repeatedly changing the rotation direction but finally gave in and
called it at day at 2am. Mr Murphy was heavy handedly wielding his laws that
day.



First thing in the morning Andy tore right into the quick task of removing the
auger and then removing the offending long splinters from the feed tube. I had
to leave to catch my flight. I hope his efforts proved successful.

Best regards,

Ron O



--- On Tue, 4/3/12, anthonymeschke <anthonymeschke@ yahoo.com> wrote:



From: anthonymeschke <anthonymeschke@ yahoo.com>

Subject: [WoodGas] Re: Late night Listering

To: WoodGas@yahoogroups .com

Date: Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 12:36 PM



Â



Sounds like you guys have been very busy.  If not making head way at least
learning a lot.



I appreciate the update.



Could you perhaps explain the gas ionization that you and Jim were talking
about.  I looked it up a little bit but could find anything in laymans terms.  I
seems it is common with CNG and hydrogen rich fuels.



Also how could this befixed or avoided?



Thanks,



Anthony Meschke



--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups .com, ron ohler <ohler_ron@. ..> wrote:



>



> Hi,



> Sorry I've failed to blog much of what has been happening here with the Lister
project. I've enjoyed my time here and meeting new folks. The APL crew has
nearly doubled in their numbers since I was last here and a few of the new faces
that I have worked with are truly super folks.Ã‚Â  Ken has been our team
leader and very much up to the task at hand. I'm quite impressed with his
knowledge and drive.



> The Lister run this weekend has not been as successful as when Mike and I ran
it in Oct, 2010. This is in no way a failure by anyone involved.



> We had the engine running and pulling 2400 watts. I did not feel it ran as
well as I had recalled.



> I've felt that something - either compression or ignition related - was
limiting the power output to less than it produced before.



> Yesterday was nearly a total disappointment.



> I had some concerns that possibly the engine was laboring under too high a
compression level. Marcus and I discussed this. I presented an idea of shimming
the C.O.P. to increase the precombustion chamber volume in order to reduce the
compression. I did some volume calculations of the thickness of the shim and
gasket used to lower the compression in 2010. It would take shimming the COP out
.800inches to accomplish the same amount of reduction in compression. Marcus and
I decidedwe couldn't do that but half was probably safe for the threads to hold.
I made 3 shims for this. A .300, .400 and .500 thick. Ken wanted to continue to
obtain base line performance from the stock compression and I wanted to at least
know if the engine would start from cold(60dF) with approximately 15:1
compression rather than the stock 17:1.Ã‚Â  It would start for me back in
Oct 2010 at 13:1 if I preheated the intake air or certainly would have had I
used ether. Once warm it

  started



>  easily without any additional heat. While Marcus was disconnecting the
exhaust to the pyrocoil I quickly installed the COP with the .400 shim and gave
it a whirl. It fired right up - giving Marcus a face full of diesel exhaust.



> We spent some time rearranging the configuration of the exhaust into the
pyrocoil to reduce some of the heat recovery as we we cooling the exhaust
leaving the pyrocoil to below the condensation point. The result was that we had
sooty water dripping out of the flex pipe to the muffler. Messy stuff. The
Harley-Davidson muffler Andy found in one of the trailers did a decent job of
reducing the noise - as Andy kept saying - It doesn't sound like a Harley.



> Then, nothing we tried made the engine run as well as it had when we first got
it running - ahhh - Saturday(?). It seemed that rather than gaining ground - we
went backward. At times it ran like a hit-and-miss engine. Other times it back
fired repeatedly. I thought this to indicate too lean a mixture as this was my
common experience with gasoline. Making the mixture richer lead to reduced
backfires but then seemed to limit rpm. Ken kept reworking the ignition unit
trying in vain to get it to work properly. Components and solder joints were
failing due to either electronic issues or vibration. I tried burning the soot
off of the spark plug with a torch but nothing produced positive results. It
seemed the harder we tried - the more we failed. I had a low blood sugar event
after planning my day around a $25 pizza I had in the fridge that wasn't there
when I needed it. Most unpleasant. Ken tried removing the micro controller from
the ignition so that we



>  would just have a simple hall effect triggered ignition. Even that quit on
him. Poor guy was really at wits end.



> We talked with Jim M a bit last night and he offered some ideas of what they
had run into on what is believed to be gas ionization at the spark plug. Made a
lot of sense to me. Possibly Ken can get an ignition driver together from what
we have left - we've killed a number of components - and try some gap changes on
the plug.



> Today is a unknown. Andy and I had hoped to bop around a bit being tourists
before going home tomorrow. It is light overcast right now at 9am.



> Best regards,



> Ron O



> Ã‚Â



>



>



> --- On Sun, 4/1/12, Mike LaRosa <ook187@...> wrote:



>



> From: Mike LaRosa <ook187@...>



> Subject: [WoodGas] Re: Late night Listering



> To: WoodGas@yahoogroups .com



> Date: Sunday, April 1, 2012, 3:11 PM



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



> Ã‚Â



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>       Ken & Ron O, Glad to hear the rare rain is letting up. Also glad to hear
that the spark system is back on line. It worked sweet when I was there but the
engine was at the lower compression ratio with the milk in crankcase. Michael
from Israel did most of the wiring if I recall right. I don't mess much with
integrated circuits. I would be more inclined to clip a stick on there and have
it hit a reed switch or just use a magnet with a vacuum reed switch to get the
job done but it was nice to adjust the timing electronically. I think of when I
was a kid and we would clip baseball cards to the struts on our bicycles to get
buzzed by the wheel spokes so that the bike would sound like a motorcycle, if
you catch my drift. As you now know this sensitive electronic stuff is subject
to instant destruction and it dies anyway just from sitting around as it is all
made from biodegradable plastics. For the third world market it would be best to
go back to a



>  somewhat mechanical device. That's my 2 cents .. Give it some thought and
please get back to me on it .. Thanks, Mike LaRosa



>



>



>



> --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups .com, Ken Boak <ken.boak@> wrote:



>



> >



>



> > Hi All



>



> >



>



> > So - the "electronics guy" fried the electronic ignition circuit yesterday



>



> > evening just as the rain started - doh!



>



> >



>



> > Now rebuilt and working well - new Hall sensor, new microcontroller and new



>



> > LED. I am so glad that I packed spares back in October 2010.



>



> >



>



> > Been running the Lister in dual fuel mode  - but now ready to do spark



>



> > ignition.



>



> >



>



> > Going to build up a GCU  (gasifier control unit) with a bunch of



>



> > thermocouples so we can datalog all the Key temperatures of the pyrocoil



>



> > and exhaust system.



>



> >



>



> > Ron is working on getting some useful heat out of the coolant with a flat



>



> > plate heatexchanger, whilst another crew are working on the "lobster



>



> > boiler" load bank (photos later)



>



> >



>



> > Lots still to do  - but making good progress now on all fronts - we have a



>



> > great team here and the sun is shining down on us!



>



> >



>



> > Ken



>



> >



>



> >



>



> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



>



> >



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








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         1.9.



         Re: Late night Listering

     Posted by:      "ron ohler"
       ohler_ron@...


           reoair



       Wed Apr 4, 2012 8:49 pm        (PDT)





       Hi Mike,

I had bought 2.5 hours of air time for my cell a week before I left for APL.
That amount of time typically lasts 3-4 months for how I use my cell. My phone
is roaming out there. By the time I got done talking to you for the second time
during the event on Monday(?) morning I was down to under 20 minutes.
Wifey(Mary) called after you did and I had to cut her short before the call got
dropped.

Sorry,

Ron O



--- On Tue, 4/3/12, mike o <mikeotter@yahoo. com> wrote:



From: mike o <mikeotter@yahoo. com>

Subject: [WoodGas] Re: Late night Listering

To: WoodGas@yahoogroups .com

Date: Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 2:28 PM



Â



Nobody called the "Other Other" gear head...  :(



OOE



--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups .com, ron ohler <ohler_ron@. ..> wrote:



>



> Hi,



> Sorry I've failed to blog much of what has been happening here with the Lister
project. I've enjoyed my time here and meeting new folks. The APL crew has
nearly doubled in their numbers since I was last here and a few of the new faces
that I have worked with are truly super folks.Ã‚Â  Ken has been our team
leader and very much up to the task at hand. I'm quite impressed with his
knowledge and drive.



> The Lister run this weekend has not been as successful as when Mike and I ran
it in Oct, 2010. This is in no way a failure by anyone involved.



> We had the engine running and pulling 2400 watts. I did not feel it ran as
well as I had recalled.



> I've felt that something - either compression or ignition related - was
limiting the power output to less than it produced before.



> Yesterday was nearly a total disappointment.



> I had some concerns that possibly the engine was laboring under too high a
compression level. Marcus and I discussed this. I presented an idea of shimming
the C.O.P. to increase the precombustion chamber volume in order to reduce the
compression. I did some volume calculations of the thickness of the shim and
gasket used to lower the compression in 2010. It would take shimming the COP out
.800inches to accomplish the same amount of reduction in compression. Marcus and
I decidedwe co



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








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            (28)

         1.10.



         Re: Late night Listering

     Posted by:      "steven nelson"
       teamkiss2001@...


           teamkiss2001



       Wed Apr 4, 2012 10:43 pm        (PDT)





       And the one lung'r purrs on Wood Gas...Â http://www.youtube. com/watch?
v=b7licWmX8KE& feature=g- all-u&context= G2698877FAAAAAAA AAAA



____________ _________ _________ __

  From: ron ohler <ohler_ron@yahoo. com>

To: WoodGas@yahoogroups .com

Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 8:49 PM

Subject: Re: [WoodGas] Re: Late night Listering





Â

Hi Mike,

I had bought 2.5 hours of air time for my cell a week before I left for APL.
That amount of time typically lasts 3-4 months for how I use my cell. My phone
is roaming out there. By the time I got done talking to you for the second time
during the event on Monday(?) morning I was down to under 20 minutes.
Wifey(Mary) called after you did and I had to cut her short before the call got
dropped.

Sorry,

Ron O



--- On Tue, 4/3/12, mike o <mikeotter@yahoo. com> wrote:



From: mike o <mikeotter@yahoo. com>

Subject: [WoodGas] Re: Late night Listering

To: WoodGas@yahoogroups .com

Date: Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 2:28 PM



Â



Nobody called the "Other Other" gear head...  :(



OOE



--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups .com, ron ohler <ohler_ron@. ..> wrote:



>



> Hi,



> Sorry I've failed to blog much of what has been happening here with the Lister
project. I've enjoyed my time here and meeting new folks. The APL crew has
nearly doubled in their numbers since I was last here and a few of the new faces
that I have worked with are truly super folks.Ã‚Â  Ken has been our team
leader and very much up to the task at hand. I'm quite impressed with his
knowledge and drive.



> The Lister run this weekend has not been as successful as when Mike and I ran
it in Oct, 2010. This is in no way a failure by anyone involved.



> We had the engine running and pulling 2400 watts. I did not feel it ran as
well as I had recalled.



> I've felt that something - either compression or ignition related - was
limiting the power output to less than it produced before.



> Yesterday was nearly a total disappointment.



> I had some concerns that possibly the engine was laboring under too high a
compression level. Marcus and I discussed this. I presented an idea of shimming
the C.O.P. to increase the precombustion chamber volume in order to reduce the
compression. I did some volume calculations of the thickness of the shim and
gasket used to lower the compression in 2010. It would take shimming the COP out
.800inches to accomplish the same amount of reduction in compression. Marcus and
I decidedwe co



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








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         1.11.



         Re: Late night Listering

     Posted by:      "jim"
       jim@...


           jimmasonjim



       Thu Apr 5, 2012 12:26 am        (PDT)









--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups .com, steven nelson <teamkiss2001@ ...> wrote:

>

> And the one lung'r purrs on Wood Gas...Â http://www.youtube. com/watch?
v=b7licWmX8KE& feature=g- all-u&context= G2698877FAAAAAAA AAAA

>



ken, did you do another diesel power reference test once you decided to run it
at 600rpm and 50hz?   how does the current measured woodgas power compare to
what it will do on diesel?



one of the reasons we may be remembering a little more power before might be we
were running it at 60hz / 650rpm or so last time.  we were running 650rpm last
time, right?  that's 10% more kw or so.



>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

>  From: ron ohler <ohler_ron@. ..>

> To: WoodGas@yahoogroups .com

> Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 8:49 PM

> Subject: Re: [WoodGas] Re: Late night Listering

>

>

> Â

> Hi Mike,

> I had bought 2.5 hours of air time for my cell a week before I left for APL.
That amount of time typically lasts 3-4 months for how I use my cell. My phone
is roaming out there. By the time I got done talking to you for the second time
during the event on Monday(?) morning I was down to under 20 minutes.
Wifey(Mary) called after you did and I had to cut her short before the call got
dropped.

> Sorry,

> Ron O

>

> --- On Tue, 4/3/12, mike o <mikeotter@. ..> wrote:

>

> From: mike o <mikeotter@. ..>

> Subject: [WoodGas] Re: Late night Listering

> To: WoodGas@yahoogroups .com

> Date: Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 2:28 PM

>

> Â

>

> Nobody called the "Other Other" gear head...  :(

>

> OOE

>

> --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups .com, ron ohler <ohler_ron@> wrote:

>

> >

>

> > Hi,

>

> > Sorry I've failed to blog much of what has been happening here with the
Lister project. I've enjoyed my time here and meeting new folks. The APL crew
has nearly doubled in their numbers since I was last here and a few of the new
faces that I have worked with are truly super folks.Ã‚Â  Ken has been our
team leader and very much up to the task at hand. I'm quite impressed with his
knowledge and drive.

>

> > The Lister run this weekend has not been as successful as when Mike and I
ran it in Oct, 2010. This is in no way a failure by anyone involved.

>

> > We had the engine running and pulling 2400 watts. I did not feel it ran as
well as I had recalled.

>

> > I've felt that something - either compression or ignition related - was
limiting the power output to less than it produced before.

>

> > Yesterday was nearly a total disappointment.

>

> > I had some concerns that possibly the engine was laboring under too high a
compression level. Marcus and I discussed this. I presented an idea of shimming
the C.O.P. to increase the precombustion chamber volume in order to reduce the
compression. I did some volume calculations of the thickness of the shim and
gasket used to lower the compression in 2010. It would take shimming the COP out
.800inches to accomplish the same amount of reduction in compression. Marcus and
I decidedwe co

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>








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            (28)

         1.12.



         Re: Late night Listering

     Posted by:      "jim"
       jim@...


           jimmasonjim



       Thu Apr 5, 2012 12:42 am        (PDT)







--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups .com, "Greg" <a31ford@... > wrote:

>

>  Ken,

>

>  Congrats on getting it running, 17:1 is about maximum for compression, as
evolved gas can and does have different fractions (mainly when running "other
than wood" eg: MSW or RDW), I would play it safe, and stick to 16-17 as an
absolute maximum.

>



it would be interesting to test this and see where it starts with this
particular engine.  all we likely need to generate is a few psi to get
detontation to start.  we don't necessarily need to do that with the lister
exhaust or shaft, we could use a completely separate pump to variably generate
the boost.



ken, in bear's blower stash we have some central vac units that do in 80" water
or so range, which is around 3 psi.  that could be enough.  they run on 12vdc,
but will tolerate more for a bit.  they are 3 stage, and bypass type, so you
won't have the issue with the brushes igniting the mixture.  still, backfires
will be more fun.  should likely have a check valve on the show.



this would not be relevant for ongoing generation of more power, but it would be
interesting just to prove where the detonation starts.  if 3psi isn't enough,
put two in series.  might need a pony tank to even out the flow needs either
way.



boom!



j



>

>  Keep Up the GREAT work !!

>

>  Greg Manning

>

> --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups .com, Ken Boak <ken.boak@> wrote:

> >

> > Hi All

> >

> > The 6hp Lister is now running sweetly at 17:1 compression ratio on woodgas

> > and producing about 2750 electrical watts when maxxed out.

> >

> > Incidently, the original 6hp Lister Startomatic genset alternator was only

> > rated at 2500W - so we are right in the zone.

> >

> > Woodgas works well at  17:1  - so forget the rumours, the idle back chat

> > and get converting those diesels to woodgas. We now have an open source

> > demonstrable system -  right here at APL.

> >

> > It's been a long drawn out project - but thanks to the dedicated and

> > determined help of Ron Ohler, Marcus Hardwick Andy Schofield, and all the

> > gang who came by last weekend we have finally got our act together.

> >

> > - Full report and video to follow shortly on youtube and APL GEK Wiki.

> >

> >

> > Ken

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>








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         2.1.



         Re: Round 2

     Posted by:      "logininn"
       d_mannes@...


           logininn



       Wed Apr 4, 2012 4:38 am        (PDT)





       Jim and Mogas.. How and where do you place a

thermocouple at the restriction without destroying it in the intense heat?

Don M

--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups .com, mogasification <mogasification@ ...> wrote:

>

> Thankyou for your response.... ...I have a confession to make.Â  The temp at
the restriction was your idea. I just thought it was a really good one so I use
it. One thing you might consider with your 100 KW unit is to use a modulated
oxidizer feed. Use modulation in a slightly subreasonant condition. It increases
capacityÂ  of the reaction zone by 30 %, provides agitation, penetrates even
the finest of materials if the pulse energy is high enough.Â Â Some reasearch
has been done with gasification reactions in "an acoustical field". Most of the
fields in the lab I have seen are generated with essentially speakers. But a
sinusoidal siren can be a much more powerfull field generator. Think of the fuel
air mixing value. Think of the gas boundry layer destruction. Sorry I get
carried away.

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

>  From: jim <jim@...>

> To: WoodGas@yahoogroups .com

> Sent: Tuesday, April 3, 2012 3:25 PM

> Subject: [WoodGas] Re: Round 2

>

>

>

> Â

>

>

>

> --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups .com, mogasification <mogasification@ > wrote:

> >

> > I haveÃ‚Â run Ã‚Â Gasifier 3Ã‚Â  for 7 hrs powering a 6 KW
generatorÃ‚Â  started the generator when the restriction reached 600 C with
the generator at no load the temps stabilized around 830 C. To load test with
varyingÃ‚Â  load I plugged a 14 inchÃ‚Â  miter saw into the generator
and proceeded to cut wood blocks for a couple hours. The temps during this
varying load test slowly climbed to

> > 900 C. I have never seen any tar in theÃ‚Â woodgas line to the
engine.Ã‚Â The ash does not need to be shaken as you have said, the
charÃ‚Â  decomposes.Ã‚Â  I have tried to do a video with the unit
running but the weather has not cooperated (HIGH winds) got the unit running but
all you can hear is the wind.

> > I am not aware of your friend Les O, if I had more information I might could
look him up.

> >

> >

>

> mo, it is great to see someone else using the "temp at restriction" measuring
method.  this is the point we've found most predictive of tar destruction.  this
point is the best stand in for measuring the full propagation of the
combustion/cracking lob, not just the top temp at then nozzles.

>

> in our tests we found that if the restriction is 900c or above, the tar fell
below measurable.  800c and up we consider fine and ok.  below 750c we get
scared.

>

> when we're starting we flare until we get up to 800c.  unfortuantely that
often takes a bit to get to, and it's likely over cautious.  i'd be scared
switching over at 600c, but 700-750c seems likely safe.

>

> you've built a really interesting unit.  lots of good ideas and execution in
there.  great work!

>

> the hybrid center and side feeds are a good method for keeping bed pentrating
distances reasonable as you scale up.  it essentially halves the distance the
nozzles have to penetrate.

>

> we're likely going to need to do this in the end on the 100kw unit as we
continue to scale it.  the usual story is the imbert perimeter nozzle design
starts to peter out in terms of bed penetration at about 150kw hearth sizes. 
don't know this from person experience yet, but it does seem to make sense.  we
don't yet have the center feed in place, but i think we'll eventually have one.

>

> j

>

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> >  From: Mike LaRosa <ook187@>

> > To: WoodGas@yahoogroups .com

> > Sent: Tuesday, April 3, 2012 8:39 AM

> > Subject: [WoodGas] Re: Round 2

> >

> >

> >

> > Ã‚Â

> >

> > Wes, There is a Les O probably not too far from you if I recall right who
did a truck. Haven't heard from him a year or two. I hope he's OK. He's in his
60's and the crap can hit the fan any time. Dealing with varying loads is a
problem. If you can maintain a good glowing char bed you can run all over the
place. Obviously you have this down. I like to run the imbert types but at or
near their maximum to keep the tar to zip. I have never had a grate shaker on
any of my units .. Mike L

> >

> > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups .com, mogasification <mogasification@ > wrote:

> > >

> > > I have built center fireÃƒâ€šÃ‚Â  gasifiers as large as 10 MW
thermal with combination center feed and pulsed wall feed. It was not an imbert
but rather a modified fixed bed.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > >  From: Mike LaRosa <ook187@>

> > > To: WoodGas@yahoogroups .com

> > > Sent: Monday, April 2, 2012 6:50 PM

> > > Subject: [WoodGas] Re: Round 2

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â

> > >

> > > Mogasification, I experimented with centerfeeds a few (5) years ago and
tried different arrangements to create a ball of fire rather than a planer area
of fire. Here is one picture of such an insert

> > > http://www.intergat e.com/~mlarosa/ images/woodgas/ imbertout. jpg

> > > It seemed to work OK but as I made it out of tin cans, it only survived a
few test runs. I could not move it up or down as my inlet came in from the side
at an angle. If I recall right it had 8, 1/2 inch holes in it and was over a 5
inch restriction. Does that sound familiar ?? I was running the studebaker at
the time I think ???? Mike LaRosa

> > >

> > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups .com, "Mike LaRosa" <ook187@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Mogasification, I checked out your website. Would you care to share a
name or location ? Locations are real important when designing. I generally
don't take anyone without a name seriously either. Either way thanks for sharing
your pictures. Let us know how all the fluff refractory stuff works out with
time. I like your cooler. I have only built for automotive use and haven't had
time to play with stuff for the smaller engines yet. Thanks, Mike LaRosa

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups .com, mogasification <mogasification@ >
wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > It is an 11 hp honda engine

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > > >  From: A. Olson <tritowns@>

> > > > > To: WoodGas@yahoogroups .com

> > > > > Sent: Monday, April 2, 2012 12:47 PM

> > > > > Subject: Re: [WoodGas] Re: Round 2

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â

> > > > >

> > > > > interesting, 5" restriction. .. i could probably run my truck with
that... how big of a motor are you making gas for?

> > > > >

> > > > > --- On Mon, 4/2/12, Wes Hilliard <mogasification@ > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > From: Wes Hilliard <mogasification@ >

> > > > > Subject: [WoodGas] Re: Round 2

> > > > > To: "WoodGas@yahoogroups .com" <WoodGas@yahoogroups .com>

> > > > > Date: Monday, April 2, 2012, 5:25 PM

> > > > >

> > > > > ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â

> > > > >

> > > > > My main interest is in stationary small scale power generation but you
are absolutely correct to isolate the hearth and reduction area in any sort of
insulation. I have maintained 850 C in the restriction (5
inch)ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â  with 5/8" water column pressure.
Powering a 6 KW generator at half load temperatures of 890 C. I used to preheat
the incoming air but abandoned that long ago. I now use a central oxygen feed
tube that allows me to tune the reactor on the fly to the load. It also allows
for agitation of the fuel. One interesting side effect of slowly rotating the
oxygen tube is the slow turning of the "jets" which has a very stabilizing
effect on the temps at the restriction. You can see some of my work at
siriusgasifier. comÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â

> > > > >

> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > > > >

> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>








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         2.2.



         Re: Round 2

     Posted by:      "mogasification"
       mogasification@...


           mogasification



       Wed Apr 4, 2012 7:59 am        (PDT)





       IÂ  use a thermocouple wire (Type K) that has a high temp covering (woven
ceramic fiber). I shield it with stainless tubing until it enters just below the
restriction. After all we are only talking 900 C. JimÂ Â has pointed out that
the temps at the restriction are much lower than they are in the combustion
zone.



____________ _________ _________ __

Â From: logininn <d_mannes@sbcglobal. net>

To: WoodGas@yahoogroups .com

Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 5:38 AM

Subject: [WoodGas] Re: Round 2





Â



Jim and Mogas.. How and where do you place a

thermocouple at the restriction without destroying it in the intense heat?

Don M

--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups .com, mogasification <mogasification@ ...> wrote:

>

> Thankyou for your response.... ...I have a confession to make.Ã‚Â  The
temp at the restriction was your idea. I just thought it was a really good one
so I use it. One thing you might consider with your 100 KW unit is to use a
modulated oxidizer feed. Use modulation in a slightly subreasonant condition. It
increases capacityÃ‚Â  of the reaction zone by 30 %, provides agitation,
penetrates even the finest of materials if the pulse energy is high
enough.Ã‚Â Ã‚Â Some reasearch has been done with gasification reactions
in "an acoustical field". Most of the fields in the lab I have seen are
generated with essentially speakers. But a sinusoidal siren can be a much more
powerfull field generator. Think of the fuel air mixing value. Think of the gas
boundry layer destruction. Sorry I get carried away.

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

>  From: jim <jim@...>

> To: WoodGas@yahoogroups .com

> Sent: Tuesday, April 3, 2012 3:25 PM

> Subject: [WoodGas] Re: Round 2

>

>

>

> Ã‚Â

>

>

>

> --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups .com, mogasification <mogasification@ > wrote:

> >

> > I haveÃƒâ€šÃ‚Â run Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â Gasifier 3Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â
for 7 hrs powering a 6 KW generatorÃƒâ€šÃ‚Â  started the generator
when the restriction reached 600 C with the generator at no load the temps
stabilized around 830 C. To load test with varyingÃƒâ€šÃ‚Â  load I
plugged a 14 inchÃƒâ€šÃ‚Â  miter saw into the generator and proceeded
to cut wood blocks for a couple hours. The temps during this varying load test
slowly climbed to

> > 900 C. I have never seen any tar in theÃƒâ€šÃ‚Â woodgas line to
the engine.Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â The ash does not need to be shaken as you have
said, the charÃƒâ€šÃ‚Â  decomposes.Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â  I have tried to
do a video with the unit running but the weather has not cooperated (HIGH winds)
got the unit running but all you can hear is the wind.

> > I am not aware of your friend Les O, if I had more information I might could
look him up.

> >

> >

>

> mo, it is great to see someone else using the "temp at restriction" measuring
method.  this is the point we've found most predictive of tar destruction.  this
point is the best stand in for measuring the full propagation of the
combustion/cracking lob, not just the top temp at then nozzles.

>

> in our tests we found that if the restriction is 900c or above, the tar fell
below measurable.  800c and up we consider fine and ok.  below 750c we get
scared.

>

> when we're starting we flare until we get up to 800c.  unfortuantely that
often takes a bit to get to, and it's likely over cautious.  i'd be scared
switching over at 600c, but 700-750c seems likely safe.

>

> you've built a really interesting unit.  lots of good ideas and execution in
there.  great work!

>

> the hybrid center and side feeds are a good method for keeping bed pentrating
distances reasonable as you scale up.  it essentially halves the distance the
nozzles have to penetrate.

>

> we're likely going to need to do this in the end on the 100kw unit as we
continue to scale it.  the usual story is the imbert perimeter nozzle design
starts to peter out in terms of bed penetration at about 150kw hearth sizes. 
don't know this from person experience yet, but it does seem to make sense.  we
don't yet have the center feed in place, but i think we'll eventually have one.

>

> j

>

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> >  From: Mike LaRosa <ook187@>

> > To: WoodGas@yahoogroups .com

> > Sent: Tuesday, April 3, 2012 8:39 AM

> > Subject: [WoodGas] Re: Round 2

> >

> >

> >

> > Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â

> >

> > Wes, There is a Les O probably not too far from you if I recall right who
did a truck. Haven't heard from him a year or two. I hope he's OK. He's in his
60's and the crap can hit the fan any time. Dealing with varying loads is a
problem. If you can maintain a good glowing char bed you can run all over the
place. Obviously you have this down. I like to run the imbert types but at or
near their maximum to keep the tar to zip. I have never had a grate shaker on
any of my units .. Mike L

> >

> > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups .com, mogasification <mogasification@ > wrote:

> > >

> > > I have built center fireÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â 
gasifiers as large as 10 MW thermal with combination center feed and pulsed wall
feed. It was not an imbert but rather a modified fixed bed.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > >  From: Mike LaRosa <ook187@>

> > > To: WoodGas@yahoogroups .com

> > > Sent: Monday, April 2, 2012 6:50 PM

> > > Subject: [WoodGas] Re: Round 2

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â

> > >

> > > Mogasification, I experimented with centerfeeds a few (5) years ago and
tried different arrangements to create a ball of fire rather than a planer area
of fire. Here is one picture of such an insert

> > > http://www.intergat e.com/~mlarosa/ images/woodgas/ imbertout. jpg

> > > It seemed to work OK but as I made it out of tin cans, it only survived a
few test runs. I could not move it up or down as my inlet came in from the side
at an angle. If I recall right it had 8, 1/2 inch holes in it and was over a 5
inch restriction. Does that sound familiar ?? I was running the studebaker at
the time I think ???? Mike LaRosa

> > >

> > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups .com, "Mike LaRosa" <ook187@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Mogasification, I checked out your website. Would you care to share a
name or location ? Locations are real important when designing. I generally
don't take anyone without a name seriously either. Either way thanks for sharing
your pictures. Let us know how all the fluff refractory stuff works out with
time. I like your cooler. I have only built for automotive use and haven't had
time to play with stuff for the smaller engines yet. Thanks, Mike LaRosa

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups .com, mogasification <mogasification@ >
wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > It is an 11 hp honda engine

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > > >  From: A. Olson <tritowns@>

> > > > > To: WoodGas@yahoogroups .com

> > > > > Sent: Monday, April 2, 2012 12:47 PM

> > > > > Subject: Re: [WoodGas] Re: Round 2

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >
ÃƒÆ’Ã†'ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€\
šÃ‚Â

> > > > >

> > > > > interesting, 5" restriction. .. i could probably run my truck with
that... how big of a motor are you making gas for?

> > > > >

> > > > > --- On Mon, 4/2/12, Wes Hilliard <mogasification@ > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > From: Wes Hilliard <mogasification@ >

> > > > > Subject: [WoodGas] Re: Round 2

> > > > > To: "WoodGas@yahoogroups .com" <WoodGas@yahoogroups .com>

> > > > > Date: Monday, April 2, 2012, 5:25 PM

> > > > >

> > > > >
ÃƒÆ’Ã†'ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€\
šÃ‚Â

> > > > >

> > > > > My main interest is in stationary small scale power generation but you
are absolutely correct to isolate the hearth and reduction area in any sort of
insulation. I have maintained 850 C in the restriction (5
inch)ÃƒÆ’Ã†'ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒ\
â€šÃ‚Â  with 5/8" water column pressure. Powering a 6 KW generator at
half load temperatures of 890 C. I used to preheat the incoming air but
abandoned that long ago. I now use a central oxygen feed tube that allows me to
tune the reactor on the fly to the load. It also allows for agitation of the
fuel. One interesting side effect of slowly rotating the oxygen tube is the slow
turning of the "jets" which has a very stabilizing effect on the temps at the
restriction. You can see some of my work at siriusgasifier.
comÃƒÆ’Ã†'ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ\
€šÃ‚Â

> > > > >

> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > > > >

> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








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         3a.



         CWG

     Posted by:      "Tim Welty"
       erdeblock@...


           erdeblock



       Wed Apr 4, 2012 4:44 am        (PDT)





       Has anyone thought of producing wood gas and compressing it into tanks
similar to compressed Natural Gas?



A large unit operation at peak conditions producing gas that is compressed into
tanks.

The auto / machine would be free of the equipment to produce the gas thereby
freeing up more room for cargo or passengers.



I go to thinking about this while looking a converting to LPG for auto.

I confess, I don't know much about the gas and its properties or if this is
technically  doable.



Just wondering if this is a concept that has been considered

tim








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         3b.



         Re: CWG

     Posted by:      "sabbadess@..."
       sabbadess@...


           sabbadess



       Wed Apr 4, 2012 5:56 am        (PDT)







Tim,



1.) Woodgas doesn't liquify under under pressure like propane.

2.) It has a low heat of combustion so you would have to compress a lot of inert
nitrogen taking up a lot of compression work.

3.) Producers can start in under a minute so why bother?

4.) Wood gas is very wet leading to corrosion problems in high pressure poison
gas tanks(not a good idea)



Stephen

-----Original Message-----

From: Tim Welty <erdeblock@yahoo. com>

To: WoodGas <WoodGas@yahoogroups .com>

Sent: Wed, Apr 4, 2012 7:44 am

Subject: [WoodGas] CWG



Has anyone thought of producing wood gas and compressing it into tanks similar
to compressed Natural Gas?



A large unit operation at peak conditions producing gas that is compressed into
tanks.

The auto / machine would be free of the equipment to produce the gas thereby
freeing up more room for cargo or passengers.



I go to thinking about this while looking a converting to LPG for auto.

I confess, I don't know much about the gas and its properties or if this is
technically doable.



Just wondering if this is a concept that has been considered

tim



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








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         3c.



         Re: CWG

     Posted by:      "mchannon"
       mchannon@...


           reclinedrelic



       Wed Apr 4, 2012 6:29 am        (PDT)





       Tim



Chemical reactions can be reversed under pressure if, during the reaction, there
is a volume change; as in the reaction turning solid carbon into carbon
monoxide.  At high pressures I would expect that reaction to reverse, turning
your carbon monoxide into soot.  That would reduce the fuel value of your wood
gass.  Perhaps some of the more chemically inclined members of the list could
confirm this.



Mike Channon

London, Ontario, Canada



At 08:56 AM 4/4/2012 -0400, you wrote:

>

>Tim,

>

>1.) Woodgas doesn't liquify under under pressure like propane.

>2.) It has a low heat of combustion so you would have to compress a lot of
inert nitrogen taking up a lot of compression work.

>3.) Producers can start in under a minute so why bother?

>4.) Wood gas is very wet leading to corrosion problems in high pressure poison
gas tanks(not a good idea)

>

>Stephen

>-----Original Message-----

>From: Tim Welty <erdeblock@yahoo. com>

>To: WoodGas <WoodGas@yahoogroups .com>

>Sent: Wed, Apr 4, 2012 7:44 am

>Subject: [WoodGas] CWG

>

>

>

>

>

>Has anyone thought of producing wood gas and compressing it into tanks similar
to compressed Natural Gas?

>

>A large unit operation at peak conditions producing gas that is compressed into
tanks.

>The auto / machine would be free of the equipment to produce the gas thereby
freeing up more room for cargo or passengers.

>

>I go to thinking about this while looking a converting to LPG for auto.

>I confess, I don't know much about the gas and its properties or if this is
technically doable.

>

>Just wondering if this is a concept that has been considered

>tim

>








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         3d.



         Re: CWG

     Posted by:      "Stuart Perkins"
       perkins.stuart@...


           stuartperkins



       Wed Apr 4, 2012 6:46 am        (PDT)





       Not only the other posts, but if you manage to get a significant amount

of H2 in your gas it will permeate most metals making them brittle and

it will leak out through "normal" connections.



On Wed, 04 Apr 2012 05:18:22 -0000

"Tim Welty" <erdeblock@yahoo. com> wrote:



> Has anyone thought of producing wood gas and compressing it into

> tanks similar to compressed Natural Gas?

>

> A large unit operation at peak conditions producing gas that is

> compressed into tanks. The auto / machine would be free of the

> equipment to produce the gas thereby freeing up more room for cargo

> or passengers.

>

> I go to thinking about this while looking a converting to LPG for

> auto. I confess, I don't know much about the gas and its properties

> or if this is technically  doable.

>

> Just wondering if this is a concept that has been considered

> tim

>



--








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         3e.



         Re: CWG

     Posted by:      "Kevin"
       kchisholm@...


           redirondog



       Wed Apr 4, 2012 7:13 am        (PDT)





       Dear Mike



Another "nail in the Compressed Wood Gas Coffin"!! :-)



There is a Chemical Law that states in effect, that "Reactions tend to move
toward equilibrium. "



Consider the reaction:    2 CO ---> C + CO2



Compressing 2 volumes of CO tends to drive the above reaction "to the right."
The volume of C is trivial in comparison to the volume of the gasses, and can be
ignored. By "Proceeding to the right," system pressure tends to reduce, toward
an equilibrium point.



The next "complicating factor" is "Kinetics", or "the speed of the reaction" For
example, if the CO was compressed at say 400 C, it would "proceed to the right"
very much faster than it would if it was compressed at room temperature (say 23
C)



While the 4 points Stephen mentions below are "the Killers", the above Reaction
is perhaps "The Icing on the Cake."



Best wishes,



Kevin



----- Original Message -----

   From: mchannon

   To: WoodGas@yahoogroups .com

   Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 10:29 AM

   Subject: Re: [WoodGas] CWG



Tim



Chemical reactions can be reversed under pressure if, during the reaction, there
is a volume change; as in the reaction turning solid carbon into carbon
monoxide. At high pressures I would expect that reaction to reverse, turning
your carbon monoxide into soot. That would reduce the fuel value of your wood
gass. Perhaps some of the more chemically inclined members of the list could
confirm this.



Mike Channon

   London, Ontario, Canada



At 08:56 AM 4/4/2012 -0400, you wrote:

   >

   >Tim,

   >

   >1.) Woodgas doesn't liquify under under pressure like propane.

   >2.) It has a low heat of combustion so you would have to compress a lot of
inert nitrogen taking up a lot of compression work.

   >3.) Producers can start in under a minute so why bother?

   >4.) Wood gas is very wet leading to corrosion problems in high pressure
poison gas tanks(not a good idea)

   >

   >Stephen

   >-----Original Message-----

   >From: Tim Welty <erdeblock@yahoo. com>

   >To: WoodGas <WoodGas@yahoogroups .com>

   >Sent: Wed, Apr 4, 2012 7:44 am

   >Subject: [WoodGas] CWG

   >

   >

   >

   >

   >

   >Has anyone thought of producing wood gas and compressing it into tanks
similar to compressed Natural Gas?

   >

   >A large unit operation at peak conditions producing gas that is compressed
into tanks.

   >The auto / machine would be free of the equipment to produce the gas thereby
freeing up more room for cargo or passengers.

   >

   >I go to thinking about this while looking a converting to LPG for auto.

   >I confess, I don't know much about the gas and its properties or if this is
technically doable.

   >

   >Just wondering if this is a concept that has been considered

   >tim

   >



No virus found in this message.

   Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

   Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2114/4912 - Release Date: 04/03/12



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








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         3f.



         Re: CWG

     Posted by:      "Tim Welty"
       erdeblock@...


           erdeblock



       Wed Apr 4, 2012 12:13 pm        (PDT)









Guys,

Thanks for the input.

Looks a dead idea for several reasons.

I didn't realize wood gas was / is so unstable with such a short lifespan.



Methane (Natural Gas) is C-H4. but stable so the Hydrogen embrittlement
mentioned for wood gas is not a problem. Also the disassociation of the
molecules into water and ? (sorry don't have the formula of wood gas) causing
tank problems is significate; as well as the breakdown into other components.



Again, Thanks for your thoughts. Economies of scale don't seem to apply here.

tim



--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups .com, "Tim Welty" <erdeblock@. ..> wrote:

>

> Has anyone thought of producing wood gas and compressing it into tanks similar
to compressed Natural Gas?

>

> A large unit operation at peak conditions producing gas that is compressed
into tanks.

> The auto / machine would be free of the equipment to produce the gas thereby
freeing up more room for cargo or passengers.

>

> I go to thinking about this while looking a converting to LPG for auto.

> I confess, I don't know much about the gas and its properties or if this is
technically  doable.

>

> Just wondering if this is a concept that has been considered

> tim

>








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         4a.



         newbi in SE Alaska

     Posted by:      "hoonahsteve"
       hoonahsteve@...


           hoonahsteve



       Wed Apr 4, 2012 12:13 pm        (PDT)





       Hello from Hoonah Alaska,

I am curious, Has anyone had any exieriance installing a gasifier system in a
boat. I am still at the drawing board and am looking at inboard and outboard
options.



Thank You

Steve








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         4b.



         Re: newbi in SE Alaska

     Posted by:      "Ralph Callaway"
       cartoman3@...


           cartoman3



       Wed Apr 4, 2012 6:50 pm        (PDT)





       Welcome to the group.



As to your question, I don't have experience, but this person does:
http://www.google. com/url?sa= t&rct=j&q= youtube%20woodga s%20boat& source=web&
cd=1&ved= 0CEAQtwIwAA& url=http% 3A%2F%2Fwww. youtube.com% 2Fwatch%3Fv%
3DdZPOOlon5VU& ei=wPl8T_ _NPMqjiAKdqqjKDQ &usg=AFQjCNFO_ xm4s1H0xV1bVHhba
PTYYeU7Kg





____________ _________ _________ __

From: hoonahsteve <hoonahsteve@ yahoo.com>

To: WoodGas@yahoogroups .com

Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 12:00 PM

Subject: [WoodGas] newbi in SE Alaska



Hello from Hoonah Alaska,

I am curious, Has anyone had any exieriance installing a gasifier system in a
boat. I am still at the drawing board and am looking at inboard and outboard
options.



Thank You

Steve



------------ --------- --------- ------



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Reply | Messages in this Topic (32)

#43506

From: Ken Boak <ken.boak@...>
Date: Thu Apr 5, 2012 10:49 am
Subject: Re: Re: Late night Listering

ken_boak

Send Email

Darrel,

You are where you are - solely because of your own actions.

If you have nothing more to contribute to this discussion other than toxic
bile and poison  - then it's time you moved on.

I'm generally a tolerant guy, and perhaps you and I could meet over a beer
sometime - but right now your attitude is not remotely helpful.


Ken


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply | Messages in this Topic (32)

#43507

From: "Leslie" <eilsel2006@...>
Date: Thu Apr 5, 2012 12:17 pm
Subject: Re: CWG

eilsel2006

Send Email

This is how they use to do it, no
compression.http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2011/11/gas-bag-vehicles.html  You
don't save no space thou.

--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "Tim Welty" <erdeblock@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Guys,
> Thanks for the input.
> Looks a dead idea for several reasons.
> I didn't realize wood gas was / is so unstable with such a short lifespan.
>
> Methane (Natural Gas) is C-H4. but stable so the Hydrogen embrittlement
mentioned for wood gas is not a problem. Also the disassociation of the
molecules into water and ? (sorry don't have the formula of wood gas) causing
tank problems is significate; as well as the breakdown into other components.
>
> Again, Thanks for your thoughts. Economies of scale don't seem to apply here.
> tim
>
> --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "Tim Welty" <erdeblock@> wrote:
> >
> > Has anyone thought of producing wood gas and compressing it into tanks
similar to compressed Natural Gas?
> >
> > A large unit operation at peak conditions producing gas that is compressed
into tanks.
> > The auto / machine would be free of the equipment to produce the gas thereby
freeing up more room for cargo or passengers.
> >
> > I go to thinking about this while looking a converting to LPG for auto.
> > I confess, I don't know much about the gas and its properties or if this is
technically  doable.
> >
> > Just wondering if this is a concept that has been considered
> > tim
> >
>

Reply | Messages in this Topic (7)

#43508

From: ron ohler <ohler_ron@...>
Date: Thu Apr 5, 2012 1:11 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Late night Listering

reoair

Send Email

Hi Darrel,
I'm sorry you see my post of your issues with Jay as an attack upon yourself by
me.

I finally caught up with some of my past emails while at the airport and saw
your invite on Tuesday to get together while I was still there. I'm sorry it
didn't work out.

In regards to my post. I only spoke of what I had heard had happened previously
and what I personally witnessed. What I was told had happened by Mike A has not
changed in the some 4 or 5 times it has come up in discussion between Mike and I
over the past two years.

I'm pretty slow to anger. Personal attacks come slow from me and with
difficulty. Such typically require my feelings to be hurt. You and I had not had
enough of an exchange for me to attack you. I only stated what I had heard,
personally witnessed, and my opinion thereof.

I am sorry you were not part of the last 2 Lister events. I'm sorry Mike A
wasn't there also. Marcus had again left before seeing the fruit of his repeated
efforts. I would have greatly enjoyed this being a group project and have had it
come to a successful completion while we all were present. Such is commonly not
the way experimental development projects come to completion.

I stated what I saw as an significant inter-personality issue with you and a
member of the APL staff. Whether or not you understand why your actions were
unacceptable is not for me to delve into on this forum. Whether it happened
before or possibly again afterward - it just was not proper for you to do what
"I" witnessed. Every employee has a right to a safe working environment without
risk of intimidation from others due to any of a variety of reasons. This is a
matter of law. As business owner and past employer - I understand and fully
support Jim M's decision to not even risk such a recurrence by barring your
presence.

I find this discussion sad and upsetting and would like this to be the last I
discuss in on this forum. Should you like to discuss this with me privately,
then you are welcome to contact me off list.

Sincerely,
Ron Ohler

--- On Thu, 4/5/12, darrel licks <d_licks@...> wrote:,_._,___

















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply | Messages in this Topic (32)

#43509

From: "nasgiv" <nasgiv@...>
Date: Thu Apr 5, 2012 7:24 am
Subject: Starting out...

nasgiv

Send Email

Hey guys,
Just joined this group after finding it on a recent mother earth news article. 
Let me start off by saying that this old concept of running a truck off of wood
gas was a breathe of fresh air for me.  Especially with the national average of
gas right nght now, which is expected to climb higher from what various sources
say.  Anyway, I have a 200 acre ranch out in east texas, a lot of the area is
forested and I have a lot of access to wood that isn't from live trees, but none
of it is being used!  I'm trying to make my entire property into an economically
viable ranching business with ecological balance, and i think converting our
truck to wood gas would be one of many great starting points...

My only dilemma is that I'm NOT car mechanic savvy whatsoever and I don't have a
clue of where to begin! Is there anybody I can get in touch with who could do a
conversion for me?  I'd love to try doing it myself, so I could have a much
better idea of how everything works, but it seems super complicated... Any idea
where I should begin?  I'd really appreciate your help, thanks!

Also, i know this may probably be a redundant post, feel free to point to any
previous posts that may address this as well...

Reply | Messages in this Topic (2)

#43510

From: ron ohler <ohler_ron@...>
Date: Thu Apr 5, 2012 2:21 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Late night Listering

reoair

Send Email

Hi,
It is so good to hear of a successful run yesterday. I hope Andy had a chance to
fine tune his carburetor for base running. We'll still need to try out the PWM
mixture control and the servo controlled speed and fuel type regulation. We're
not done yet but it's coming along.

Ken's ignition worked well and had a nice multi discharge spark in 2010. We used
a coil on plug type ignition coil at that time which produced quite a strong
spark. I'm sure he can determine what failed us this time.

One issue we had with running it faster than 600 rpm this week was that just
above 650 rpm the engine and frame reached a harmonic point and really started
to bounce around. It runs sweet and steady at 600rpm. With the governor
disconnected in preparation for the servo controls all speed control was manual.
The operator can't see the frequency meter so it is truly speed control by
"ear".

Got to get to work
Best,
Ron O

--- On Thu, 4/5/12, jim <jim@...> wrote:

From: jim <jim@...>
Subject: [WoodGas] Re: Late night Listering
To: WoodGas@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, April 5, 2012, 3:26 AM
















 













--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, steven nelson <teamkiss2001@...> wrote:

>

> And the one lung'r purrs on Wood
Gas...Â http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7licWmX8KE&feature=g-all-u&context=G26\
98877FAAAAAAAAAAA

>



ken, did you do another diesel power reference test once you decided to run it
at 600rpm and 50hz?   how does the current measured woodgas power compare to
what it will do on diesel?



one of the reasons we may be remembering a little more power before might be we
were running it at 60hz / 650rpm or so last time.  we were running 650rpm last
time, right?  that's 10% more kw or so.



>

> ________________________________

>  From: ron ohler <ohler_ron@...>

> To: WoodGas@yahoogroups.com

> Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 8:49 PM

> Subject: Re: [WoodGas] Re: Late night Listering

>

>

> Â 

> Hi Mike,

> I had bought 2.5 hours of air time for my cell a week before I left for APL.
That amount of time typically lasts 3-4 months for how I use my cell. My phone
is roaming out there. By the time I got done talking to you for the second time
during the event on Monday(?) morning I was down to under 20 minutes.
Wifey(Mary) called after you did and I had to cut her short before the call got
dropped.

> Sorry,

> Ron O

>

> --- On Tue, 4/3/12, mike o <mikeotter@...> wrote:

>

> From: mike o <mikeotter@...>

> Subject: [WoodGas] Re: Late night Listering

> To: WoodGas@yahoogroups.com

> Date: Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 2:28 PM

>

> Â 

>

> Nobody called the "Other Other" gear head...  :(

>

> OOE

>

> --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, ron ohler <ohler_ron@> wrote:

>

> >

>

> > Hi,

>

> > Sorry I've failed to blog much of what has been happening here with the
Lister project. I've enjoyed my time here and meeting new folks. The APL crew
has nearly doubled in their numbers since I was last here and a few of the new
faces that I have worked with are truly super folks.Ã‚Â  Ken has been our
team leader and very much up to the task at hand. I'm quite impressed with his
knowledge and drive.

>

> > The Lister run this weekend has not been as successful as when Mike and I
ran it in Oct, 2010. This is in no way a failure by anyone involved.

>

> > We had the engine running and pulling 2400 watts. I did not feel it ran as
well as I had recalled.

>

> > I've felt that something - either compression or ignition related - was
limiting the power output to less than it produced before.

>

> > Yesterday was nearly a total disappointment.

>

> > I had some concerns that possibly the engine was laboring under too high a
compression level. Marcus and I discussed this. I presented an idea of shimming
the C.O.P. to increase the precombustion chamber volume in order to reduce the
compression. I did some volume calculations of the thickness of the shim and
gasket used to lower the compression in 2010. It would take shimming the COP out
.800inches to accomplish the same amount of reduction in compression. Marcus and
I decidedwe co

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>



























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply | Messages in this Topic (32)

#43511

From: "david_baillie68" <david_baillie68@...>
Date: Thu Apr 5, 2012 2:25 pm
Subject: Re: Starting out...

david_baillie68

Send Email

I think if the Mother Earth news article interested you check out Wayne Keith's
website: www.driveonwood.com Browse around for free but if you're serious sign
up for the premium and watch a step by step video buildup of a unit and get a
book.  With that you should be on the right path. That is the path I'm on
anyways...
David

--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "nasgiv" <nasgiv@...> wrote:
>
> Hey guys,
> Just joined this group after finding it on a recent mother earth news article.
Let me start off by saying that this old concept of running a truck off of wood
gas was a breathe of fresh air for me.  Especially with the national average of
gas right nght now, which is expected to climb higher from what various sources
say.  Anyway, I have a 200 acre ranch out in east texas, a lot of the area is
forested and I have a lot of access to wood that isn't from live trees, but none
of it is being used!  I'm trying to make my entire property into an economically
viable ranching business with ecological balance, and i think converting our
truck to wood gas would be one of many great starting points...
>
> My only dilemma is that I'm NOT car mechanic savvy whatsoever and I don't have
a clue of where to begin! Is there anybody I can get in touch with who could do
a conversion for me?  I'd love to try doing it myself, so I could have a much
better idea of how everything works, but it seems super complicated... Any idea
where I should begin?  I'd really appreciate your help, thanks!
>
> Also, i know this may probably be a redundant post, feel free to point to any
previous posts that may address this as well...
>

Reply | Messages in this Topic (2)

#43512

From: "sara_rn2005" <sara_rn2005@...>
Date: Thu Apr 5, 2012 1:54 pm
Subject: Hearth size and number of nozzles

sara_rn2005

Send Email

I just bought an old Ford truck with a 351 and am hoping someone can recommend
the size (diameter) of the restricter plate in the firetube and also the number
and size of nozzles for this engine. This is my first attempt at converting a
truck to run on producer gas, although I have successfully done so with my
lawnmower. Any insight will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Reply | Messages in this Topic (3)

#43513

From: "benjaminbof" <benjaminbof@...>
Date: Thu Apr 5, 2012 3:32 pm
Subject: WOOD GAS WIZARD

benjaminbof

Send Email

http://www.motherearthnews.com/green-transportation/wood-gas-zm0z12amzroc.aspx


  in this matter are analysis of firewood energy costs.The principal device IMHO
is the saw mill of Keith because there is splitted timber, saleable,and firewood
to fuel its truck.
We send suggestion to USDA, Tom Vilsack, to award Keith

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7S4J0xd--i4


Is necessary to apply Howard Odum diagrams and symbols to study how is produced
proteins from grass bales without oil and chemicals. Perhaps with sorghum wet
ethanol production, home brewed fueling, his V10 Dodge Dakota truck and injected
through inlet manifold in John Deere tractor giving drag to truck and reducing
oil consumption in tractor powered farm activities.
Regards
Ben

Reply | Messages in this Topic (1)

#43514

From: George Adams <george@...>
Date: Thu Apr 5, 2012 4:52 pm
Subject: Re: Hearth size and number of nozzles

gadams1930

Send Email

If you look in the files area of this yahoogroups.com web page there are
two Excel spreadsheets that will help you do the calculations. I haven't
used these myself but ran into them yesterday. Look for
Gasifier Calculations.xls and imbert nozzle and hearth dimensions.xls
If you don't have a copy of MS Excel or some other program that will open
an Excel spreadsheet (Open Office or Mac Numbers) I could post an on-line
version in Google Docs. If you have or want to get a gmail account you
could upload the .xls files to the documents section of gmail and work with
them there.

On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 8:54 AM, sara_rn2005 <sara_rn2005@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> I just bought an old Ford truck with a 351 and am hoping someone can
> recommend the size (diameter) of the restricter plate in the firetube and
> also the number and size of nozzles for this engine. This is my first
> attempt at converting a truck to run on producer gas, although I have
> successfully done so with my lawnmower. Any insight will be greatly
> appreciated. Thank you.
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply | Messages in this Topic (3)

#43515

From: "maxgasman" <gasman@...>
Date: Thu Apr 5, 2012 6:16 pm
Subject: Re: Round 2 plus rain and water

maxgasman

Send Email

Hello, Anthony!

I had hoped that the text i 43406 was completely
clear, still it leads to a misunderstanding.

When I say ALL, I mean ALL without any exclusions!

As long as a hearth is made of two brake rotors,
whole the hearth means two brake rotors, or what?

Whole of something = All of something, isn't it?

I can find no better way of re-writing 43406!



The whole hearth standing on = upon = above

the bottom of the upper silo barrel will naturally
have a circular "ditch" around it, which should
be PRE-FILLED with ash up to the nozzle-shafts
before filling in charcoal at the first start-up.

The hopeless
Max


--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
> "anthonymeschke" <anthonymeschke@...>
> wrote:

> Max.
> What is a drawing of your design?
> I guess we can not uncerstand or draw it.
> So do you want ash around the upper and
> lower rotors?  Or only one?  Or none?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Anthony Meschke
>
> --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
> > "maxgasman" <gasman@> wrote:
> >
> > Again, Ted!
> >
> > Now there is a sketch, dated First of April!
> >
> > Could be taken as an April joke!
> >
> > It seems to be completely unaffected
> > by resent proposals.
> >
> > "Hearth above the silo bottom" means that
> > NOTHING of it is left below; all of it
> > needs the insulation provided by the ash.
> >
> > The thought is that not even the reduction
> > part shall play the role of a heat radiator!
> >
> > Radiated heat is ALL away from the process
> > of making good gas.
> >
> > Making woodgas is by "nature" an energy-starved
> > process, compared to making charcoal gas,
> > which releases plenty of surplus energy,
> > which in dry circumstances can be used for
> > cracking extra water.
> > (More than in the primary air)
> >
> > Make a new sketch!
> >
> > Max
> >
> > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
> > > "maxgasman" <gasman@> wrote:
> >
> > > Hello, Ted!
> > >
> > > I'm sorry! I cannot find anything newer than
> > > First of January 2012 on four of your albums.
> > > When and where have you set up a new picture
> > > or skis?
> > >
> > > It would be interresting to see what you have
> > > made of the disscussion!
> > >
> > > Max
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > awesales <tbone188@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Max
> > > > I think I follow your concept and made a simple
> > > > drawing of it. I put it in
> > > > the photos album tbone188project. Do I have the
> > > > right idea?
> > > > Ted
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Reply | Messages in this Topic (106)

#43516

From: "arvid" <tritowns@...>
Date: Thu Apr 5, 2012 7:40 pm
Subject: Re: Round 2 plus rain and water

tritowns

Send Email

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WoodGas/photos/album/1066778128/pic/1175327290/vie\
w?picmode=&mode=tn&order=mtime&start=1&count=20&dir=desc

I really did cut and paste this together... after i printed it...

I think this is what you mean Max? closer?

Arvid

--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "maxgasman" <gasman@...> wrote:
>
> Hello, Anthony!
>
> I had hoped that the text i 43406 was completely
> clear, still it leads to a misunderstanding.
>
> When I say ALL, I mean ALL without any exclusions!
>
> As long as a hearth is made of two brake rotors,
> whole the hearth means two brake rotors, or what?
>
> Whole of something = All of something, isn't it?
>
> I can find no better way of re-writing 43406!
>
>
>
> The whole hearth standing on = upon = above
>
> the bottom of the upper silo barrel will naturally
> have a circular "ditch" around it, which should
> be PRE-FILLED with ash up to the nozzle-shafts
> before filling in charcoal at the first start-up.
>
> The hopeless
> Max
>
>
> --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
> > "anthonymeschke" <anthonymeschke@>
> > wrote:
>
> > Max.
> > What is a drawing of your design?
> > I guess we can not uncerstand or draw it.
> > So do you want ash around the upper and
> > lower rotors?  Or only one?  Or none?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Anthony Meschke
> >
> > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
> > > "maxgasman" <gasman@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Again, Ted!
> > >
> > > Now there is a sketch, dated First of April!
> > >
> > > Could be taken as an April joke!
> > >
> > > It seems to be completely unaffected
> > > by resent proposals.
> > >
> > > "Hearth above the silo bottom" means that
> > > NOTHING of it is left below; all of it
> > > needs the insulation provided by the ash.
> > >
> > > The thought is that not even the reduction
> > > part shall play the role of a heat radiator!
> > >
> > > Radiated heat is ALL away from the process
> > > of making good gas.
> > >
> > > Making woodgas is by "nature" an energy-starved
> > > process, compared to making charcoal gas,
> > > which releases plenty of surplus energy,
> > > which in dry circumstances can be used for
> > > cracking extra water.
> > > (More than in the primary air)
> > >
> > > Make a new sketch!
> > >
> > > Max
> > >
> > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > "maxgasman" <gasman@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello, Ted!
> > > >
> > > > I'm sorry! I cannot find anything newer than
> > > > First of January 2012 on four of your albums.
> > > > When and where have you set up a new picture
> > > > or skis?
> > > >
> > > > It would be interresting to see what you have
> > > > made of the disscussion!
> > > >
> > > > Max
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > > awesales <tbone188@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Max
> > > > > I think I follow your concept and made a simple
> > > > > drawing of it. I put it in
> > > > > the photos album tbone188project. Do I have the
> > > > > right idea?
> > > > > Ted
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Reply | Messages in this Topic (106)

#43517

From: "maxgasman" <gasman@...>
Date: Thu Apr 5, 2012 8:17 pm
Subject: Re: Round 2

maxgasman

Send Email

Hello, Robert!

I am lost with the 150 X 3 mm (plate, cylinder,
diameter), what measure?

Sorry to hear about the landlord madness!

The "spanner band" is a profile-band going
around two barrel-ends to join them airtight
together. The ends of the band are pulled
together by an excentric lock-handle.

Max

--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
> > "Robert" <meridian_power@...> wrote:
> >
> > > > > For a long time I have thought of proposing
> > > > > a variation of the hearth hanging downwards
> > > > > from the bottom of a barrel, completely
> > > > > uninsulated.
> > > > >
> > > > > Having half a barrel as a plentiful ash bunker
> > > > > and basis, and then a full height barrel on it.
> > > > > Joined with a spanner-band; easy to separate
> > > > > parts, stable when joined.
> > > > >
>
> Hi Max, do you propose something similar
> to the first 3 pictures here?
> This is designed for a drop in restrictor
> plate, a single downtube air inlet and a
> hanging grate.
> The flanges I used to join the barrels
> are a waste of steel and should be replaced
> by a rolled plate (150mm by 3mm) to be
> welded to one barrel and bolted to captive
> nuts in the other half
>
> Cheers
> Rob
> (still moving house and the new landlord
> is already driving me nuts, sigh...
>

Reply | Messages in this Topic (106)

#43518

From: "Mike LaRosa" <ook187@...>
Date: Thu Apr 5, 2012 8:42 pm
Subject: Re: Round 2

ook187

Send Email

Hi Max, Good to see you back. I made a post with this link a few days ago. Care
to comment ?
http://www.intergate.com/~mlarosa/images/woodgas/mike-n-max-1.pdf
I hope we are on a similar page .. Mike L


--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "maxgasman" <gasman@...> wrote:
>
> Hello, Robert!
>
> I am lost with the 150 X 3 mm (plate, cylinder,
> diameter), what measure?
>
> Sorry to hear about the landlord madness!
>
> The "spanner band" is a profile-band going
> around two barrel-ends to join them airtight
> together. The ends of the band are pulled
> together by an excentric lock-handle.
>
> Max
>
> --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
> > > "Robert" <meridian_power@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > > > For a long time I have thought of proposing
> > > > > > a variation of the hearth hanging downwards
> > > > > > from the bottom of a barrel, completely
> > > > > > uninsulated.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Having half a barrel as a plentiful ash bunker
> > > > > > and basis, and then a full height barrel on it.
> > > > > > Joined with a spanner-band; easy to separate
> > > > > > parts, stable when joined.
> > > > > >
> >
> > Hi Max, do you propose something similar
> > to the first 3 pictures here?
> > This is designed for a drop in restrictor
> > plate, a single downtube air inlet and a
> > hanging grate.
> > The flanges I used to join the barrels
> > are a waste of steel and should be replaced
> > by a rolled plate (150mm by 3mm) to be
> > welded to one barrel and bolted to captive
> > nuts in the other half
> >
> > Cheers
> > Rob
> > (still moving house and the new landlord
> > is already driving me nuts, sigh...
> >
>

Reply | Messages in this Topic (106)

#43519

From: "sara_rn2005" <sara_rn2005@...>
Date: Thu Apr 5, 2012 7:08 pm
Subject: Re: Hearth size and number of nozzles

sara_rn2005

Send Email

I appreciate the information, however I can't figure out how the 351 Windsor
engine fits into this table. Which row on the table would be applicable?

--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, George Adams <george@...> wrote:
>
> If you look in the files area of this yahoogroups.com web page there are
> two Excel spreadsheets that will help you do the calculations. I haven't
> used these myself but ran into them yesterday. Look for
> Gasifier Calculations.xls and imbert nozzle and hearth dimensions.xls
> If you don't have a copy of MS Excel or some other program that will open
> an Excel spreadsheet (Open Office or Mac Numbers) I could post an on-line
> version in Google Docs. If you have or want to get a gmail account you
> could upload the .xls files to the documents section of gmail and work with
> them there.
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 8:54 AM, sara_rn2005 <sara_rn2005@...> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > I just bought an old Ford truck with a 351 and am hoping someone can
> > recommend the size (diameter) of the restricter plate in the firetube and
> > also the number and size of nozzles for this engine. This is my first
> > attempt at converting a truck to run on producer gas, although I have
> > successfully done so with my lawnmower. Any insight will be greatly
> > appreciated. Thank you.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Reply | Messages in this Topic (3)

#43520

From: "A. Olson" <tritowns@...>
Date: Thu Apr 5, 2012 8:49 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Round 2

tritowns

Send Email

that's how i read Max's post

--- On Thu, 4/5/12, Mike LaRosa <ook187@...> wrote:

From: Mike LaRosa <ook187@...>
Subject: [WoodGas] Re: Round 2
To: WoodGas@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, April 5, 2012, 9:42 PM
















 









       Hi Max, Good to see you back. I made a post with this link a few days ago.
Care to comment ?

http://www.intergate.com/~mlarosa/images/woodgas/mike-n-max-1.pdf

I hope we are on a similar page .. Mike L



--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "maxgasman" <gasman@...> wrote:

>

> Hello, Robert!

>

> I am lost with the 150 X 3 mm (plate, cylinder,

> diameter), what measure?

>

> Sorry to hear about the landlord madness!

>

> The "spanner band" is a profile-band going

> around two barrel-ends to join them airtight

> together. The ends of the band are pulled

> together by an excentric lock-handle.

>

> Max

>

> --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,

> > > "Robert" <meridian_power@> wrote:

> > >

> > > > > > For a long time I have thought of proposing

> > > > > > a variation of the hearth hanging downwards

> > > > > > from the bottom of a barrel, completely

> > > > > > uninsulated.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Having half a barrel as a plentiful ash bunker

> > > > > > and basis, and then a full height barrel on it.

> > > > > > Joined with a spanner-band; easy to separate

> > > > > > parts, stable when joined.

> > > > > >

> >

> > Hi Max, do you propose something similar

> > to the first 3 pictures here?

> > This is designed for a drop in restrictor

> > plate, a single downtube air inlet and a

> > hanging grate.

> > The flanges I used to join the barrels

> > are a waste of steel and should be replaced

> > by a rolled plate (150mm by 3mm) to be

> > welded to one barrel and bolted to captive

> > nuts in the other half

> >

> > Cheers

> > Rob

> > (still moving house and the new landlord

> > is already driving me nuts, sigh...

> >

>



























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply | Messages in this Topic (106)

#43521

From: "anthonymeschke" <anthonymeschke@...>
Date: Thu Apr 5, 2012 10:14 pm
Subject: Re: Round 2

anthonymeschke

Send Email

Thank you max for pounding it through my thick head.  I now follow your
thoughts.  I did not do it like that on my unit though because I could not
figure out how to get the nozzles through the hopper to the outside walls and
still make them airtight.  I will try that on my next build.  For now I am
creating a box for the bottom of my gasifier and plan to add insulation into it
and wire in some insulation around the rotors with the air nozzles protruding
through the insulation.  It is not as good as ash but the best I can do for now.
I am sort of worried about getting to much preheat and thinning the air so that
the small nozzles will be to small.
Hope your doing well,

Anthony Meschke

--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "A. Olson" <tritowns@...> wrote:
>
> that's how i read Max's post
>
> --- On Thu, 4/5/12, Mike LaRosa <ook187@...> wrote:
>
> From: Mike LaRosa <ook187@...>
> Subject: [WoodGas] Re: Round 2
> To: WoodGas@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, April 5, 2012, 9:42 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>       Hi Max, Good to see you back. I made a post with this link a few days
ago. Care to comment ?
>
> http://www.intergate.com/~mlarosa/images/woodgas/mike-n-max-1.pdf
>
> I hope we are on a similar page .. Mike L
>
>
>
> --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "maxgasman" <gasman@> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Hello, Robert!
>
> >
>
> > I am lost with the 150 X 3 mm (plate, cylinder,
>
> > diameter), what measure?
>
> >
>
> > Sorry to hear about the landlord madness!
>
> >
>
> > The "spanner band" is a profile-band going
>
> > around two barrel-ends to join them airtight
>
> > together. The ends of the band are pulled
>
> > together by an excentric lock-handle.
>
> >
>
> > Max
>
> >
>
> > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
>
> > > > "Robert" <meridian_power@> wrote:
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > > For a long time I have thought of proposing
>
> > > > > > > a variation of the hearth hanging downwards
>
> > > > > > > from the bottom of a barrel, completely
>
> > > > > > > uninsulated.
>
> > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > Having half a barrel as a plentiful ash bunker
>
> > > > > > > and basis, and then a full height barrel on it.
>
> > > > > > > Joined with a spanner-band; easy to separate
>
> > > > > > > parts, stable when joined.
>
> > > > > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > Hi Max, do you propose something similar
>
> > > to the first 3 pictures here?
>
> > > This is designed for a drop in restrictor
>
> > > plate, a single downtube air inlet and a
>
> > > hanging grate.
>
> > > The flanges I used to join the barrels
>
> > > are a waste of steel and should be replaced
>
> > > by a rolled plate (150mm by 3mm) to be
>
> > > welded to one barrel and bolted to captive
>
> > > nuts in the other half
>
> > >
>
> > > Cheers
>
> > > Rob
>
> > > (still moving house and the new landlord
>
> > > is already driving me nuts, sigh...
>
> > >
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Reply | Messages in this Topic (106)

#43522

From: "Gary Gilmore" <glgilmore@...>
Date: Fri Apr 6, 2012 2:39 am
Subject: Re: Round 2 plus rain and water

ggilmore67

Send Email

Hi Max!   The wording you used in this example gives an excellent visual of your
idea.  I can "see" it now.  It always amazes me how hard it is to convey a
picture of something to someone else.  Thanks for hanging in there with those of
us who may be a little slow on the uptake!
Gary in PA


--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "maxgasman" <gasman@...> wrote:
>
> Hello, Anthony!
>
> I had hoped that the text i 43406 was completely
> clear, still it leads to a misunderstanding.
>
> When I say ALL, I mean ALL without any exclusions!
>
> As long as a hearth is made of two brake rotors,
> whole the hearth means two brake rotors, or what?
>
> Whole of something = All of something, isn't it?
>
> I can find no better way of re-writing 43406!
>
>
>
> The whole hearth standing on = upon = above
>
> the bottom of the upper silo barrel will naturally
> have a circular "ditch" around it, which should
> be PRE-FILLED with ash up to the nozzle-shafts
> before filling in charcoal at the first start-up.
>
> The hopeless
> Max
>
>
> --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
> > "anthonymeschke" <anthonymeschke@>
> > wrote:
>
> > Max.
> > What is a drawing of your design?
> > I guess we can not uncerstand or draw it.
> > So do you want ash around the upper and
> > lower rotors?  Or only one?  Or none?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Anthony Meschke
> >
> > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
> > > "maxgasman" <gasman@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Again, Ted!
> > >
> > > Now there is a sketch, dated First of April!
> > >
> > > Could be taken as an April joke!
> > >
> > > It seems to be completely unaffected
> > > by resent proposals.
> > >
> > > "Hearth above the silo bottom" means that
> > > NOTHING of it is left below; all of it
> > > needs the insulation provided by the ash.
> > >
> > > The thought is that not even the reduction
> > > part shall play the role of a heat radiator!
> > >
> > > Radiated heat is ALL away from the process
> > > of making good gas.
> > >
> > > Making woodgas is by "nature" an energy-starved
> > > process, compared to making charcoal gas,
> > > which releases plenty of surplus energy,
> > > which in dry circumstances can be used for
> > > cracking extra water.
> > > (More than in the primary air)
> > >
> > > Make a new sketch!
> > >
> > > Max
> > >
> > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > "maxgasman" <gasman@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello, Ted!
> > > >
> > > > I'm sorry! I cannot find anything newer than
> > > > First of January 2012 on four of your albums.
> > > > When and where have you set up a new picture
> > > > or skis?
> > > >
> > > > It would be interresting to see what you have
> > > > made of the disscussion!
> > > >
> > > > Max
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > > awesales <tbone188@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Max
> > > > > I think I follow your concept and made a simple
> > > > > drawing of it. I put it in
> > > > > the photos album tbone188project. Do I have the
> > > > > right idea?
> > > > > Ted
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Reply | Messages in this Topic (106)

#43523

From: "Loyd" <shorloyd@...>
Date: Fri Apr 6, 2012 2:59 pm
Subject: Newbe

shorloyd

Send Email

Hi All
Could use some help on getting started.
Like sizing and best type of gassifier to build?
Have a great day.

Reply | Messages in this Topic (5)

#43524

From: sabbadess@...
Date: Fri Apr 6, 2012 3:19 pm
Subject: Re: Newbe

sabbadess

Send Email

Hi Loyd,

Welcome to the party.  The best type of gasifier to build is some form of the
Imbert not(!!) the FEMA.

The next question is to decide what you want to do with it.  If you want to run
a small generator like a 5kW, you are welcome to look at my stuff:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WoodGas/photos/album/118107394/pic/1497697212/view

or the GEK from All Power Labs

http://wiki.gekgasifier.com/w/page/6123754/How-to-Build-and-Run-the-GEK-Gasifier

If you want to run a vehicle, Mike LaRosa has a nice double rotor hearth design.
Sorry, I don't have that one book marked.

Stephen
-----Original Message-----
From: Loyd <shorloyd@...>
To: WoodGas <WoodGas@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Apr 6, 2012 11:08 am
Subject: [WoodGas] Newbe




Hi All
Could use some help on getting started.
Like sizing and best type of gassifier to build?
Have a great day.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply | Messages in this Topic (5)

#43525

From: "Mike LaRosa" <ook187@...>
Date: Fri Apr 6, 2012 3:20 pm
Subject: Re: Round 2 plus rain and water

ook187

Send Email

FWIW, Some hearths require some cooling and insulating them would be bad and
cause warping and destruction. I am referring to the straight sided steel pipe
variety with a flat restriction plate in the bottom and non-protruding nozzles.
I run hourglass types made from near cast iron so don't worry about warpage too
much and they never get that hot anyway as the oxidation area is insulated by
some ash. Also, the blast is carried inward towards the restriction. The
straight sided ones run near straight down the sides. Stainless in the hourglass
configuration holds up well when insulated as well. I'll assume that Max is
thinking the standard cast iron hourglass imbert type hearth. He can chew me out
if he wants. ML


--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Gilmore" <glgilmore@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Max!   The wording you used in this example gives an excellent visual of
your idea.  I can "see" it now.  It always amazes me how hard it is to convey a
picture of something to someone else.  Thanks for hanging in there with those of
us who may be a little slow on the uptake!
> Gary in PA
>
>
> --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "maxgasman" <gasman@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello, Anthony!
> >
> > I had hoped that the text i 43406 was completely
> > clear, still it leads to a misunderstanding.
> >
> > When I say ALL, I mean ALL without any exclusions!
> >
> > As long as a hearth is made of two brake rotors,
> > whole the hearth means two brake rotors, or what?
> >
> > Whole of something = All of something, isn't it?
> >
> > I can find no better way of re-writing 43406!
> >
> >
> >
> > The whole hearth standing on = upon = above
> >
> > the bottom of the upper silo barrel will naturally
> > have a circular "ditch" around it, which should
> > be PRE-FILLED with ash up to the nozzle-shafts
> > before filling in charcoal at the first start-up.
> >
> > The hopeless
> > Max
> >
> >
> > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
> > > "anthonymeschke" <anthonymeschke@>
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > Max.
> > > What is a drawing of your design?
> > > I guess we can not uncerstand or draw it.
> > > So do you want ash around the upper and
> > > lower rotors?  Or only one?  Or none?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Anthony Meschke
> > >
> > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > "maxgasman" <gasman@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Again, Ted!
> > > >
> > > > Now there is a sketch, dated First of April!
> > > >
> > > > Could be taken as an April joke!
> > > >
> > > > It seems to be completely unaffected
> > > > by resent proposals.
> > > >
> > > > "Hearth above the silo bottom" means that
> > > > NOTHING of it is left below; all of it
> > > > needs the insulation provided by the ash.
> > > >
> > > > The thought is that not even the reduction
> > > > part shall play the role of a heat radiator!
> > > >
> > > > Radiated heat is ALL away from the process
> > > > of making good gas.
> > > >
> > > > Making woodgas is by "nature" an energy-starved
> > > > process, compared to making charcoal gas,
> > > > which releases plenty of surplus energy,
> > > > which in dry circumstances can be used for
> > > > cracking extra water.
> > > > (More than in the primary air)
> > > >
> > > > Make a new sketch!
> > > >
> > > > Max
> > > >
> > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > > "maxgasman" <gasman@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hello, Ted!
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm sorry! I cannot find anything newer than
> > > > > First of January 2012 on four of your albums.
> > > > > When and where have you set up a new picture
> > > > > or skis?
> > > > >
> > > > > It would be interresting to see what you have
> > > > > made of the disscussion!
> > > > >
> > > > > Max
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > > > awesales <tbone188@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Max
> > > > > > I think I follow your concept and made a simple
> > > > > > drawing of it. I put it in
> > > > > > the photos album tbone188project. Do I have the
> > > > > > right idea?
> > > > > > Ted
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Reply | Messages in this Topic (106)

#43526

From: "maxgasman" <gasman@...>
Date: Fri Apr 6, 2012 4:04 pm
Subject: Re: Round 2 plus rain and water

maxgasman

Send Email

Hi, Arvid!

You have "seen" the 43406 correctly! OK

Max

--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
> "arvid" <tritowns@...> wrote:
>
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WoodGas/photos/album/1066778128/pic/1175327290/vie\
w?picmode=&mode=tn&order=mtime&start=1&count=20&dir=desc

>
> I really did cut and paste this together...
> after i printed it...
>
> I think this is what you mean Max? closer?
>
> Arvid
>
> --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
> > "maxgasman" <gasman@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello, Anthony!
> >
> > I had hoped that the text i 43406 was completely
> > clear, still it leads to a misunderstanding.
> >
> > When I say ALL, I mean ALL without any exclusions!
> >
> > As long as a hearth is made of two brake rotors,
> > whole the hearth means two brake rotors, or what?
> >
> > Whole of something = All of something, isn't it?
> >
> > I can find no better way of re-writing 43406!
> >
> >
> >
> > The whole hearth standing on = upon = above
> >
> > the bottom of the upper silo barrel will naturally
> > have a circular "ditch" around it, which should
> > be PRE-FILLED with ash up to the nozzle-shafts
> > before filling in charcoal at the first start-up.
> >
> > The hopeless
> > Max
> >
> >
> > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
> > > "anthonymeschke" <anthonymeschke@>
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > Max.
> > > What is a drawing of your design?
> > > I guess we can not uncerstand or draw it.
> > > So do you want ash around the upper and
> > > lower rotors?  Or only one?  Or none?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Anthony Meschke
> > >
> > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > "maxgasman" <gasman@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Again, Ted!
> > > >
> > > > Now there is a sketch, dated First of April!
> > > >
> > > > Could be taken as an April joke!
> > > >
> > > > It seems to be completely unaffected
> > > > by resent proposals.
> > > >
> > > > "Hearth above the silo bottom" means that
> > > > NOTHING of it is left below; all of it
> > > > needs the insulation provided by the ash.
> > > >
> > > > The thought is that not even the reduction
> > > > part shall play the role of a heat radiator!
> > > >
> > > > Radiated heat is ALL away from the process
> > > > of making good gas.
> > > >
> > > > Making woodgas is by "nature" an energy-starved
> > > > process, compared to making charcoal gas,
> > > > which releases plenty of surplus energy,
> > > > which in dry circumstances can be used for
> > > > cracking extra water.
> > > > (More than in the primary air)
> > > >
> > > > Make a new sketch!
> > > >
> > > > Max
> > > >
> > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > > "maxgasman" <gasman@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hello, Ted!
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm sorry! I cannot find anything newer than
> > > > > First of January 2012 on four of your albums.
> > > > > When and where have you set up a new picture
> > > > > or skis?
> > > > >
> > > > > It would be interresting to see what you have
> > > > > made of the disscussion!
> > > > >
> > > > > Max
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > > > awesales <tbone188@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Max
> > > > > > I think I follow your concept and made a simple
> > > > > > drawing of it. I put it in
> > > > > > the photos album tbone188project. Do I have the
> > > > > > right idea?
> > > > > > Ted
> > > > > >

Reply | Messages in this Topic (106)

#43527

From: "maxgasman" <gasman@...>
Date: Fri Apr 6, 2012 4:28 pm
Subject: Re: Round 2

maxgasman

Send Email

Hi, Mike!

My Internet Explorer 8 analyses the connection
time after time, and gives this result:


Last diagnostic run time: 04/06/12 19:19:02 HTTP, HTTPS, FTP Diagnostic
HTTP, HTTPS, FTP connectivity

info HTTP: Successfully connected to www.microsoft.com.
info HTTPS: Successfully connected to www.microsoft.com.
info FTP (Passive): Successfully connected to ftp.microsoft.com.




Still I cannot get to your server!

Intergate.com would not "let me in"...

Hard to comment, as the picture cannot be seen.


Max










--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "Mike LaRosa" <ook187@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Max, Good to see you back. I made a post with this link a few days ago.
Care to comment ?
> http://www.intergate.com/~mlarosa/images/woodgas/mike-n-max-1.pdf
> I hope we are on a similar page .. Mike L
>
>
> --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "maxgasman" <gasman@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello, Robert!
> >
> > I am lost with the 150 X 3 mm (plate, cylinder,
> > diameter), what measure?
> >
> > Sorry to hear about the landlord madness!
> >
> > The "spanner band" is a profile-band going
> > around two barrel-ends to join them airtight
> > together. The ends of the band are pulled
> > together by an excentric lock-handle.
> >
> > Max
> >
> > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > "Robert" <meridian_power@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > > For a long time I have thought of proposing
> > > > > > > a variation of the hearth hanging downwards
> > > > > > > from the bottom of a barrel, completely
> > > > > > > uninsulated.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Having half a barrel as a plentiful ash bunker
> > > > > > > and basis, and then a full height barrel on it.
> > > > > > > Joined with a spanner-band; easy to separate
> > > > > > > parts, stable when joined.
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > Hi Max, do you propose something similar
> > > to the first 3 pictures here?
> > > This is designed for a drop in restrictor
> > > plate, a single downtube air inlet and a
> > > hanging grate.
> > > The flanges I used to join the barrels
> > > are a waste of steel and should be replaced
> > > by a rolled plate (150mm by 3mm) to be
> > > welded to one barrel and bolted to captive
> > > nuts in the other half
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Rob
> > > (still moving house and the new landlord
> > > is already driving me nuts, sigh...
> > >
> >
>

Reply | Messages in this Topic (106)

#43528

From: "Mike LaRosa" <ook187@...>
Date: Fri Apr 6, 2012 5:13 pm
Subject: Re: Round 2

ook187

Send Email

Hi Max, The server must be blocked in your location or your setup won't allow
the download of a pdf file the way I have it loaded. Some folks in England have
had problems as well. I did a screen rip of it and made a jpeg and uploaded it
to this site
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WoodGas/photos/album/984627811/pic/1708501724/view\
?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc
I hope that link works. Of course a funnel could be added but the chunks glue
themselves in place and make a free funnel anyway.
Mike L


--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "maxgasman" <gasman@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Mike!
>
> My Internet Explorer 8 analyses the connection
> time after time, and gives this result:
>
>
> Last diagnostic run time: 04/06/12 19:19:02 HTTP, HTTPS, FTP Diagnostic
> HTTP, HTTPS, FTP connectivity
>
> info HTTP: Successfully connected to www.microsoft.com.
> info HTTPS: Successfully connected to www.microsoft.com.
> info FTP (Passive): Successfully connected to ftp.microsoft.com.
>
>
>
>
> Still I cannot get to your server!
>
> Intergate.com would not "let me in"...
>
> Hard to comment, as the picture cannot be seen.
>
>
> Max
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "Mike LaRosa" <ook187@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Max, Good to see you back. I made a post with this link a few days ago.
Care to comment ?
> > http://www.intergate.com/~mlarosa/images/woodgas/mike-n-max-1.pdf
> > I hope we are on a similar page .. Mike L
> >
> >
> > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "maxgasman" <gasman@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello, Robert!
> > >
> > > I am lost with the 150 X 3 mm (plate, cylinder,
> > > diameter), what measure?
> > >
> > > Sorry to hear about the landlord madness!
> > >
> > > The "spanner band" is a profile-band going
> > > around two barrel-ends to join them airtight
> > > together. The ends of the band are pulled
> > > together by an excentric lock-handle.
> > >
> > > Max
> > >
> > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > > "Robert" <meridian_power@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > For a long time I have thought of proposing
> > > > > > > > a variation of the hearth hanging downwards
> > > > > > > > from the bottom of a barrel, completely
> > > > > > > > uninsulated.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Having half a barrel as a plentiful ash bunker
> > > > > > > > and basis, and then a full height barrel on it.
> > > > > > > > Joined with a spanner-band; easy to separate
> > > > > > > > parts, stable when joined.
> > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi Max, do you propose something similar
> > > > to the first 3 pictures here?
> > > > This is designed for a drop in restrictor
> > > > plate, a single downtube air inlet and a
> > > > hanging grate.
> > > > The flanges I used to join the barrels
> > > > are a waste of steel and should be replaced
> > > > by a rolled plate (150mm by 3mm) to be
> > > > welded to one barrel and bolted to captive
> > > > nuts in the other half
> > > >
> > > > Cheers
> > > > Rob
> > > > (still moving house and the new landlord
> > > > is already driving me nuts, sigh...
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Reply | Messages in this Topic (106)

#43531

From: "Mike LaRosa" <ook187@...>
Date: Fri Apr 6, 2012 5:30 pm
Subject: ke4ko got hijacked ?

ook187

Send Email

ke4ko's address book got hijacked. I deleted a few posts and set him to
moderated for a while. ML

Reply | Messages in this Topic (1)

#43532

From: "maxgasman" <gasman@...>
Date: Fri Apr 6, 2012 5:39 pm
Subject: Re: Round 2 plus rain and water

maxgasman

Send Email

Hello, Gary!

Happy Easter!

It is always a relieve, if a description
brings some clearness.

It is clear, that a Williams’s tube as a
hearth tube is chaotic, and no one wants
to have that struggle. However, a fire-tube
with a decent “enforcement”, say about
1 m/s and a movable restriction-ring with
a short upward aiming collar can be useful.

The fire-tube sits inside a larger
heart-tube and they share the same
plane (flat) bottom.

Now we know what lies between them ;-)


It is good to remember, that the DOWNWARD
imaginary flow in a traditional Imbert GMR
two-throat nozzle-tip-circle is about 0,65 m/s.

If one wants to make a “hot-cake” then increase
the DOWNWARD imaginary to 0,7 m/s.

As a reference, in the one-throat Imbert FSD
patented in Paris in July -44, the downward
imaginary velocity was 1,7 m/s!

This means, that there are other values to
experiment with, not only the blasting
velocity and the throat velocity. . .

The oxidation volume = a cut cone is
determined by the net gas volume per
second the motor consumes, and the
fuel-bit size. . .

Max


> --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
> "Gary Gilmore" <glgilmore@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Max!   The wording you used in this
> example gives an excellent visual of your
> idea.  I can "see" it now.  It always
> amazes me how hard it is to convey a
> picture of something to someone else.
> Thanks for hanging in there with those
> of us who may be a little slow on the
> uptake!
> Gary in PA
>
>
> --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
> > "maxgasman" <gasman@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello, Anthony!
> >
> > I had hoped that the text i 43406 was completely
> > clear, still it leads to a misunderstanding.
> >
> > When I say ALL, I mean ALL without any exclusions!
> >
> > As long as a hearth is made of two brake rotors,
> > whole the hearth means two brake rotors, or what?
> >
> > Whole of something = All of something, isn't it?
> >
> > I can find no better way of re-writing 43406!
> >
> >
> >
> > The whole hearth standing on = upon = above
> >
> > the bottom of the upper silo barrel will naturally
> > have a circular "ditch" around it, which should
> > be PRE-FILLED with ash up to the nozzle-shafts
> > before filling in charcoal at the first start-up.
> >
> > The hopeless
> > Max
> >
> >
> > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
> > > "anthonymeschke" <anthonymeschke@>
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > Max.
> > > What is a drawing of your design?
> > > I guess we can not uncerstand or draw it.
> > > So do you want ash around the upper and
> > > lower rotors?  Or only one?  Or none?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Anthony Meschke
> > >
> > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > "maxgasman" <gasman@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Again, Ted!
> > > >
> > > > Now there is a sketch, dated First of April!
> > > >
> > > > Could be taken as an April joke!
> > > >
> > > > It seems to be completely unaffected
> > > > by resent proposals.
> > > >
> > > > "Hearth above the silo bottom" means that
> > > > NOTHING of it is left below; all of it
> > > > needs the insulation provided by the ash.
> > > >
> > > > The thought is that not even the reduction
> > > > part shall play the role of a heat radiator!
> > > >
> > > > Radiated heat is ALL away from the process
> > > > of making good gas.
> > > >
> > > > Making woodgas is by "nature" an energy-starved
> > > > process, compared to making charcoal gas,
> > > > which releases plenty of surplus energy,
> > > > which in dry circumstances can be used for
> > > > cracking extra water.
> > > > (More than in the primary air)
> > > >
> > > > Make a new sketch!
> > > >
> > > > Max
> > > >
> > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > > "maxgasman" <gasman@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hello, Ted!
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm sorry! I cannot find anything newer than
> > > > > First of January 2012 on four of your albums.
> > > > > When and where have you set up a new picture
> > > > > or skis?
> > > > >
> > > > > It would be interresting to see what you have
> > > > > made of the disscussion!
> > > > >
> > > > > Max
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > > > awesales <tbone188@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Max
> > > > > > I think I follow your concept and made a simple
> > > > > > drawing of it. I put it in
> > > > > > the photos album tbone188project. Do I have the
> > > > > > right idea?
> > > > > > Ted

Reply | Messages in this Topic (106)

#43533

From: "A. Olson" <tritowns@...>
Date: Fri Apr 6, 2012 7:08 pm
Subject: Re: Newbe

tritowns

Send Email

knowing what you want to run and build what fits it makes the most sense...

figure that out and you're half way there.... sorta

--- On Fri, 4/6/12, sabbadess@... <sabbadess@...> wrote:

From: sabbadess@... <sabbadess@...>
Subject: Re: [WoodGas] Newbe
To: WoodGas@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, April 6, 2012, 4:19 PM

Hi Loyd,

Welcome to the party.  The best type of gasifier to build is some form of the
Imbert not(!!) the FEMA.

The next question is to decide what you want to do with it.  If you want to run
a small generator like a 5kW, you are welcome to look at my stuff:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WoodGas/photos/album/118107394/pic/1497697212/view

or the GEK from All Power Labs

http://wiki.gekgasifier.com/w/page/6123754/How-to-Build-and-Run-the-GEK-Gasifier

If you want to run a vehicle, Mike LaRosa has a nice double rotor hearth design.
Sorry, I don't have that one book marked.

Stephen

-----Original Message-----

From: Loyd <shorloyd@...>

To: WoodGas <WoodGas@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Fri, Apr 6, 2012 11:08 am

Subject: [WoodGas] Newbe

Hi All

Could use some help on getting started.

Like sizing and best type of gassifier to build?

Have a great day.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply | Messages in this Topic (5)

#43534

From: "maxgasman" <gasman@...>
Date: Fri Apr 6, 2012 8:56 pm
Subject: Re: Round 2

maxgasman

Send Email

Hi, Mike!

Arvid got the "above" right,
bolted from above.

You got the "spanner-band" right.

Teasing a bit ;-))

Max

--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
> "Mike LaRosa" <ook187@...> wrote:

> Hi Max, The server must be blocked in
> your location or your setup won't allow
> the download of a pdf file the way I have
> it loaded. Some folks in England have had
> problems as well. I did a screen rip of
> it and made a jpeg and uploaded it to
> this site
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WoodGas/photos/album/984627811/pic/1708501724/view\
?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc


> I hope that link works. Of course a funnel
> could be added but the chunks glue themselves
> in place and make a free funnel anyway.
> Mike L
>
>
> --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
> > "maxgasman" <gasman@> wrote:

> > Hi, Mike!
> >
> > My Internet Explorer 8 analyses the connection
> > time after time, and gives this result:
> >
> >
> > Last diagnostic run time: 04/06/12 19:19:02 HTTP, HTTPS, FTP
> > Diagnostic
> > HTTP, HTTPS, FTP connectivity
> >
> > info HTTP: Successfully connected to www.microsoft.com.
> > info HTTPS: Successfully connected to www.microsoft.com.
> > info FTP (Passive): Successfully connected to ftp.microsoft.com.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Still I cannot get to your server!
> >
> > Intergate.com would not "let me in"...
> >
> > Hard to comment, as the picture cannot be seen.
> >
> > Max
> >
> >
> > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
> > > "Mike LaRosa" <ook187@> wrote:
> > > Hi Max, Good to see you back. I made
> > > a post with this link a few days ago. Care
> > > to comment ?
> > >
> > > http://www.intergate.com/~mlarosa/images/woodgas/mike-n-max-1.pdf


> > > I hope we are on a similar page ...
> > > Mike L
> > >
> > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > "maxgasman" <gasman@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hello, Robert!
> > > >
> > > > I am lost with the 150 X 3 mm (plate, cylinder,
> > > > diameter), what measure?
> > > >
> > > > Sorry to hear about the landlord madness!
> > > >
> > > > The "spanner band" is a profile-band going
> > > > around two barrel-ends to join them airtight
> > > > together. The ends of the band are pulled
> > > > together by an excentric lock-handle.
> > > >
> > > > Max
> > > >
> > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > > > "Robert" <meridian_power@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > For a long time I have thought of proposing
> > > > > > > > > a variation of the hearth hanging downwards
> > > > > > > > > from the bottom of a barrel, completely
> > > > > > > > > uninsulated.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Having half a barrel as a plentiful ash bunker
> > > > > > > > > and basis, and then a full height barrel on it.
> > > > > > > > > Joined with a spanner-band; easy to separate
> > > > > > > > > parts, stable when joined.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Max, do you propose something similar
> > > > > to the first 3 pictures here?
> > > > > This is designed for a drop in restrictor
> > > > > plate, a single downtube air inlet and a
> > > > > hanging grate.
> > > > > The flanges I used to join the barrels
> > > > > are a waste of steel and should be replaced
> > > > > by a rolled plate (150mm by 3mm) to be
> > > > > welded to one barrel and bolted to captive
> > > > > nuts in the other half
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers
> > > > > Rob
> > > > > (still moving house and the new landlord
> > > > > is already driving me nuts, sigh...
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Reply | Messages in this Topic (106)

#43535

From: "Mike LaRosa" <ook187@...>
Date: Fri Apr 6, 2012 9:11 pm
Subject: Re: Round 2

ook187

Send Email

Max, I just "bolted" the disk part from the bottom to create a bypass grate. Of
course big washers would be required to distribute the load but as it will be
packed with ash, it won't flex much. If it was bolted on top it would require
that all the cooling fins be packed with furnace cement so the packed ash would
not work it's way through the cooling holes to the grate. ... ML


--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "maxgasman" <gasman@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Mike!
>
> Arvid got the "above" right,
> bolted from above.
>
> You got the "spanner-band" right.
>
> Teasing a bit ;-))
>
> Max
>
> --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
> > "Mike LaRosa" <ook187@> wrote:
>
> > Hi Max, The server must be blocked in
> > your location or your setup won't allow
> > the download of a pdf file the way I have
> > it loaded. Some folks in England have had
> > problems as well. I did a screen rip of
> > it and made a jpeg and uploaded it to
> > this site
> >
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WoodGas/photos/album/984627811/pic/1708501724/view\
?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc
>
>
> > I hope that link works. Of course a funnel
> > could be added but the chunks glue themselves
> > in place and make a free funnel anyway.
> > Mike L
> >
> >
> > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
> > > "maxgasman" <gasman@> wrote:
>
> > > Hi, Mike!
> > >
> > > My Internet Explorer 8 analyses the connection
> > > time after time, and gives this result:
> > >
> > >
> > > Last diagnostic run time: 04/06/12 19:19:02 HTTP, HTTPS, FTP
> > > Diagnostic
> > > HTTP, HTTPS, FTP connectivity
> > >
> > > info HTTP: Successfully connected to www.microsoft.com.
> > > info HTTPS: Successfully connected to www.microsoft.com.
> > > info FTP (Passive): Successfully connected to ftp.microsoft.com.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Still I cannot get to your server!
> > >
> > > Intergate.com would not "let me in"...
> > >
> > > Hard to comment, as the picture cannot be seen.
> > >
> > > Max
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > "Mike LaRosa" <ook187@> wrote:
> > > > Hi Max, Good to see you back. I made
> > > > a post with this link a few days ago. Care
> > > > to comment ?
> > > >
> > > > http://www.intergate.com/~mlarosa/images/woodgas/mike-n-max-1.pdf
>
>
> > > > I hope we are on a similar page ...
> > > > Mike L
> > > >
> > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > > "maxgasman" <gasman@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello, Robert!
> > > > >
> > > > > I am lost with the 150 X 3 mm (plate, cylinder,
> > > > > diameter), what measure?
> > > > >
> > > > > Sorry to hear about the landlord madness!
> > > > >
> > > > > The "spanner band" is a profile-band going
> > > > > around two barrel-ends to join them airtight
> > > > > together. The ends of the band are pulled
> > > > > together by an excentric lock-handle.
> > > > >
> > > > > Max
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > > > > "Robert" <meridian_power@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > For a long time I have thought of proposing
> > > > > > > > > > a variation of the hearth hanging downwards
> > > > > > > > > > from the bottom of a barrel, completely
> > > > > > > > > > uninsulated.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Having half a barrel as a plentiful ash bunker
> > > > > > > > > > and basis, and then a full height barrel on it.
> > > > > > > > > > Joined with a spanner-band; easy to separate
> > > > > > > > > > parts, stable when joined.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Max, do you propose something similar
> > > > > > to the first 3 pictures here?
> > > > > > This is designed for a drop in restrictor
> > > > > > plate, a single downtube air inlet and a
> > > > > > hanging grate.
> > > > > > The flanges I used to join the barrels
> > > > > > are a waste of steel and should be replaced
> > > > > > by a rolled plate (150mm by 3mm) to be
> > > > > > welded to one barrel and bolted to captive
> > > > > > nuts in the other half
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cheers
> > > > > > Rob
> > > > > > (still moving house and the new landlord
> > > > > > is already driving me nuts, sigh...
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Reply | Messages in this Topic (106)

#43536

From: Loyd Short <shorloyd@...>
Date: Sat Apr 7, 2012 3:45 am
Subject: Re: Newbe

shorloyd

Send Email

Thanks is there anybody out there living in the Denver Colorado area?

--- On Fri, 4/6/12, A. Olson <tritowns@...> wrote:

From: A. Olson <tritowns@...>
Subject: Re: [WoodGas] Newbe
To: WoodGas@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, April 6, 2012, 12:08 PM

       knowing what you want to run and build what fits it makes the most
sense...

figure that out and you're half way there.... sorta

--- On Fri, 4/6/12, sabbadess@... <sabbadess@...> wrote:

From: sabbadess@... <sabbadess@...>

Subject: Re: [WoodGas] Newbe

To: WoodGas@yahoogroups.com

Date: Friday, April 6, 2012, 4:19 PM

Hi Loyd,

Welcome to the party.  The best type of gasifier to build is some form of the
Imbert not(!!) the FEMA.

The next question is to decide what you want to do with it.  If you want to run
a small generator like a 5kW, you are welcome to look at my stuff:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WoodGas/photos/album/118107394/pic/1497697212/view

or the GEK from All Power Labs

http://wiki.gekgasifier.com/w/page/6123754/How-to-Build-and-Run-the-GEK-Gasifier

If you want to run a vehicle, Mike LaRosa has a nice double rotor hearth design.
Sorry, I don't have that one book marked.

Stephen

-----Original Message-----

From: Loyd <shorloyd@...>

To: WoodGas <WoodGas@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Fri, Apr 6, 2012 11:08 am

Subject: [WoodGas] Newbe

Hi All

Could use some help on getting started.

Like sizing and best type of gassifier to build?

Have a great day.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply | Messages in this Topic (5)

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