Hi Mike L, all
If this apple prunings comes off, do they need seasoning and for how long...
I thought i read somewhere that certain woods can be burned as soon as they re
dry, like hazel....what other woods can be utilized in the same manner?
Cheers
G

--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "Mike LaRosa" <ook187@...> wrote:
>
> Gareth, 12.7 kg divided by 60 liters is 0.212 kg/l or 212 kg/m3 so it is
lighter than anything I run here. Even our puffy poplar is 278 kg/m3 and I don't
like running the stuff. My biggest complaint is the ants seem to find it in the
truck. I like running stuff that is around 400 kg/m3 here. I would expect you to
use near twice the volume I use and have some more slippage at the grate. Thanks
for taking the time to measure a tub and provide the details. That apple sounds
good.. Mike
>
>
> --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "gareth_woolley" <gareth_woolley@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Mike L, et all,
> > I have just weighed my wood, which per tub is 12.7kg of wood and i had 57
tubs cut ready to go as of last week. The tub is 60litre in size so i get 27.94
lbs per keg/ 2.14lbs per litre
> > Im still no wiser on the make of tree it came from as it all arrives in kit
form!
> > I ve been looking at toyotas on ebay but nothing comes up in this country at
affordable prices.....me thinks i ll keep searching
> > Cheers
> > G
> >
>

Bonjour Denis,

  The parts of Kaybek I have seen are some of most beautiful places on earth. I
never been that far east to Mon-treal. The route from the Soo to the Grand River
to James bay is rich with potential gasifier fuels. In September, bluets are
everywhere.
In some places essence (gasoline)is rare, and very expensive.
The town of Abitibi smells good; like new plywood.

Please take many pictures of your system.

Andy
Mackinac Region

--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "denszelx2000" <densze@...> wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> I am part of a group interested in converting a pickup to woodgas here in
Montreal, Quebec, Canada.  If any of you wants to partipate, have experience,
have any contacts or interests, let us know, would be glad.
>
> Thanks
>
> Denis, Montreal, Qu�bec, Canada
>

Hi Gareth,

Here are the results from a test I did regarding drying times for hardwood chips
made with a PTO chipper.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WoodGas/photos/album/118107394/pic/1702978905/view

If you are running blocks the times will obviously be longer.

I have heard that ash can be burned right away but I wouldn't try it.

Stephen
-----Original Message-----
From: gareth_woolley <gareth_woolley@...>
To: WoodGas <WoodGas@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Jun 12, 2012 8:03 am
Subject: [WoodGas] Re: my wood




Hi Mike L, all
If this apple prunings comes off, do they need seasoning and for how long...
I thought i read somewhere that certain woods can be burned as soon as they re
dry, like hazel....what other woods can be utilized in the same manner?
Cheers
G

--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "Mike LaRosa" <ook187@...> wrote:
>
> Gareth, 12.7 kg divided by 60 liters is 0.212 kg/l or 212 kg/m3 so it is
lighter than anything I run here. Even our puffy poplar is 278 kg/m3 and I don't
like running the stuff. My biggest complaint is the ants seem to find it in the
truck. I like running stuff that is around 400 kg/m3 here. I would expect you to
use near twice the volume I use and have some more slippage at the grate. Thanks
for taking the time to measure a tub and provide the details. That apple sounds
good.. Mike
>
>
> --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "gareth_woolley" <gareth_woolley@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Mike L, et all,
> > I have just weighed my wood, which per tub is 12.7kg of wood and i had 57
tubs cut ready to go as of last week. The tub is 60litre in size so i get 27.94
lbs per keg/ 2.14lbs per litre
> > Im still no wiser on the make of tree it came from as it all arrives in kit
form!
> > I ve been looking at toyotas on ebay but nothing comes up in this country at
affordable prices.....me thinks i ll keep searching
> > Cheers
> > G
> >
>







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Gareth

The term "Seasoning Wood" refers more to firewood than to gasifier fuel.
"Stickwood" and split wood with diameters of say 4" and lengths of say 16" need
to be "seasoned" for about a year, to allow the moisture to get down to a level
that allows the wood to burn in a typical stove. Such "seasoning" makes a big
positive difference in how well the stove operates. As far as I can understand,
there is basically no difference between "seasoned wood" and "as-cut and split
wood" other than the moisture content

A Gasifier is a different matter. One "Gasifier System" may work best with say
5% moisture in the fuel, another may operate best at say 15% while another may
operate best at say 25% moisture content in the fuel. What you need then, is
fuel with "the right moisture content for your particular gasifier system." As a
starting point, I would suggest 20% moisture content, in that this seems to be
the level that is very easily attained with outside storage and ventilation, and
with no particular effort to get warmer air to circulate through the bed of
wood. If your particular "gasifier system" works acceptably for you at 20%
moisture, then GREAT!! Go with 20% moisture.

On the other hand, if you expend a bit of effort on an "improved" drying system"
of some sort, then you might find that your system works even better with 15%
moisture content. You have to determine if the extra bother and effort is worth
the improvement in operation.

Apple tree prunings can vary greatly in moisture content. Fresh live saplings,
loaded with sap at the time of pruning may run 45% moisture by weight, wet
basis, while deadwood might be 20% or perhaps 15% moisture content.

I would suggest that you run tests with "regular sized fuel", at different
moisture contents, and that you then let your gasifier system tell you what
moisture content it likes best.

Best wishes,

Kevin

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: gareth_woolley
   To: WoodGas@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 8:49 AM
   Subject: [WoodGas] Re: my wood



   Hi Mike L, all
   If this apple prunings comes off, do they need seasoning and for how long...
   I thought i read somewhere that certain woods can be burned as soon as they re
dry, like hazel....what other woods can be utilized in the same manner?
   Cheers
   G

   --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "Mike LaRosa" <ook187@...> wrote:
   >
   > Gareth, 12.7 kg divided by 60 liters is 0.212 kg/l or 212 kg/m3 so it is
lighter than anything I run here. Even our puffy poplar is 278 kg/m3 and I don't
like running the stuff. My biggest complaint is the ants seem to find it in the
truck. I like running stuff that is around 400 kg/m3 here. I would expect you to
use near twice the volume I use and have some more slippage at the grate. Thanks
for taking the time to measure a tub and provide the details. That apple sounds
good.. Mike
   >
   >
   > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "gareth_woolley" <gareth_woolley@> wrote:
   > >
   > > Hi Mike L, et all,
   > > I have just weighed my wood, which per tub is 12.7kg of wood and i had 57
tubs cut ready to go as of last week. The tub is 60litre in size so i get 27.94
lbs per keg/ 2.14lbs per litre
   > > Im still no wiser on the make of tree it came from as it all arrives in
kit form!
   > > I ve been looking at toyotas on ebay but nothing comes up in this country
at affordable prices.....me thinks i ll keep searching
   > > Cheers
   > > G
   > >
   >





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Spoken like a true empirical scientist...  :o)

On Tue, 12 Jun 2012 10:17:33 -0300
"Kevin" <kchisholm@...> wrote:

> I would suggest that you run tests with "regular sized fuel", at
> different moisture contents, and that you then let your gasifier
> system tell you what moisture content it likes best.


--

Ralph, The numbers I am interested in are loose 2" chunks in a bucket or tub as
this is what we use. A solid chunk will be proportionately the same as another
solid chunk but has no relevance. My question was answered. He has fluff wood
there .... ML


--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, Ralph Callaway <cartoman3@...> wrote:
>
> Mike, I think you're making a bad assumption - I bet Gareth's wood is loose in
the tube.
>
> Better to measure a solid chunk Gareth, and extrapolate the weight up to the
kg/m3 to give the apples a chance to get together.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>  From: Mike LaRosa <ook187@...>
> To: WoodGas@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 3:05 PM
> Subject: [WoodGas] Re: my wood
>
> Gareth, 12.7 kg divided by 60 liters is 0.212 kg/l or 212 kg/m3 so it is
lighter than anything I run here. Even our puffy poplar is 278 kg/m3 and I don't
like running the stuff. My biggest complaint is the ants seem to find it in the
truck. I like running stuff that is around 400 kg/m3 here. I would expect you to
use near twice the volume I use and have some more slippage at the grate. Thanks
for taking the time to measure a tub and provide the details. That apple sounds
good.. Mike
>
>
> --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "gareth_woolley" <gareth_woolley@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Mike L, et all,
> > I have just weighed my wood, which per tub is 12.7kg of wood and i had 57
tubs cut ready to go as of last week. The tub is 60litre in size so i get 27.94
lbs per keg/ 2.14lbs per litre
> > Im still no wiser on the make of tree it came from as it all arrives in kit
form!
> > I ve been looking at toyotas on ebay but nothing comes up in this country at
affordable prices.....me thinks i ll keep searching
> > Cheers
> > G
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I am in the process of finding parts for a double rotor gasifier and was
wondering what size rotors work best?  I've seen some at the local salvage yard
but I wasn't sure if bigger was better or if they could be too big, etc.

In a message dated 5/8/2012 7:47:40 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
sabbadess@... writes:

CZ,

The best I can tell you is that it's a 20 year old  Craftsman 5hp peak, 16
gallon, wet/dry vac. It's labeled for 150mph blowing  speed so I would guess
it's a 2 stage.

Stephen

Thanks, Stephen,
I have one of those, it will suck sand and small gravel up six feet. I'll
try the




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The best place to start would be to decide what engine you want to run and at
what rpm for what power.
Then use the calculations found here to decide the geometry you need.

http://www.woodgas.nl/GB/diy.html

this will get you in the right direction.

for a 2.2 liter to about a 3.8 liter at the max i would look for about a 3003
rear rotor to a 4 wheel drive chevy truck or a ford truck.  they have pretty
good dimension.  But i would calculate the size you need then just go measure
some up.

meschke

--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "jason" <jkggg1@...> wrote:
>
> I am in the process of finding parts for a double rotor gasifier and was
wondering what size rotors work best?  I've seen some at the local salvage yard
but I wasn't sure if bigger was better or if they could be too big, etc.
>

Gareth,

Sycamore and ash will both burn well with only a few weeks drying out.
Most other woods require much longer - up to a year or two. Apple is
slow to dry but prunings should take less because of small size and
should dry quickly if kept out of the rain (not so easy in Wales at the
moment).

To find the moisture content of the apple prunings just get a random
sample and weigh it. Then put it in an aga or rayburn for a few days and
weigh it again. A microwave will also work but needs a lot more
attention.  I have just put 107g of fresh prunings in my Rayburn, will
report back in a couple of days time. My old women regularly complains
about the lumps of wood in the bottom of the rayburn with writing on :-)

Round this way we get a lot of small bits of windblown ash. Most people
are not interested in this because it is too fiddly to burn, but the
small twigs, similar size to apple prunings will burn really well in a
gasifier, and are ideal in a kelly's kettle.

Colin from Cornwall (nr England)

Hey all, thanks for the heads up on the wood front. I m tyring to get a good
fuel stock together for when we get 'welsh weather' or the six kinds of rain
(from the front, back, both sides, the stuff that falls down and that which
bounces back up atcha)
I ve been picking the highways and by ways and as my gasifier runs so much of
the wood quickly, having a stock of the stuff just doesnt happen.
As i said, i may have a good source of apple (yet to be confirmed) and another
contact on douglas fir limbs from some cleared forestry (also yet to be
confirmed)but am unsure of seasoning/ drying requirements.
Out of curiosity, for those with a moisture tester and a universal multimeter...
how does say 15% moisture equate to resistance in ohms on a multi meter as i
have one of those to hand on the truck and could test before i select woods for
use?
Cheers
G

--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, Colin Bull <csb@...> wrote:
>
> Gareth,
>
> Sycamore and ash will both burn well with only a few weeks drying out.
> Most other woods require much longer - up to a year or two. Apple is
> slow to dry but prunings should take less because of small size and
> should dry quickly if kept out of the rain (not so easy in Wales at the
> moment).
>
> To find the moisture content of the apple prunings just get a random
> sample and weigh it. Then put it in an aga or rayburn for a few days and
> weigh it again. A microwave will also work but needs a lot more
> attention.  I have just put 107g of fresh prunings in my Rayburn, will
> report back in a couple of days time. My old women regularly complains
> about the lumps of wood in the bottom of the rayburn with writing on :-)
>
> Round this way we get a lot of small bits of windblown ash. Most people
> are not interested in this because it is too fiddly to burn, but the
> small twigs, similar size to apple prunings will burn really well in a
> gasifier, and are ideal in a kelly's kettle.
>
> Colin from Cornwall (nr England)
>

Jason, My current one has a 3.5" hole but most of units I have made have a 3"
hole. Hope this picture helps
http://www.intergate.com/~mlarosa/images/woodgas/future-hearths.jpg
You want the kind that has a deep dish, usually for an emergency brake. You also
want an identical pair so you can bolt them together .. ML


--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "jason" <jkggg1@...> wrote:
>
> I am in the process of finding parts for a double rotor gasifier and was
wondering what size rotors work best?  I've seen some at the local salvage yard
but I wasn't sure if bigger was better or if they could be too big, etc.
>

Hello all,

I am new to wood gasification and I am looking for a place to start. My thought
is that I should build a small scale gasifier to familiarize myself with the
workings and then build a larger scale modle once I have the basics down. Any
suggestions on where to start would be much appreciated. My ultimate goal is to
generate electricity and to possibly build a vehicle that runs on wood. Thanks.

Mike, thanks for the information.
I have found a pair with a 3 1/8" hole and 3" deep,and 8" openning at the top.
with the rotors ,the water heater tanks, a 55 gal. drum and an old tank from a
small sand blaster I think I have all the large parts. I have a plan on paper .
just need all the small parts, I think it mite take a little longer to scrounge
all of the small patrs. I will keep the group posted.

--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "Mike LaRosa" <ook187@...> wrote:
>
> Jason, My current one has a 3.5" hole but most of units I have made have a 3"
hole. Hope this picture helps
> http://www.intergate.com/~mlarosa/images/woodgas/future-hearths.jpg
> You want the kind that has a deep dish, usually for an emergency brake. You
also want an identical pair so you can bolt them together .. ML
>
>
> --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "jason" <jkggg1@> wrote:
> >
> > I am in the process of finding parts for a double rotor gasifier and was
wondering what size rotors work best?  I've seen some at the local salvage yard
but I wasn't sure if bigger was better or if they could be too big, etc.
> >
>

exhaust pipe works great for piping.  If you go to a shop they usually have a
bunch of short pieces laying around they would bend to angles for you and spread
the end so they fit nicely together.
To start I would just go with a simple cooler such as an expansion chamber to
slow the gas down and drop particles and cool the gas then some longer sections
of pipe to the engine.  You can get fancy once you find out the gasifier is
dimensioned right.

meschke

--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "jason" <jkggg1@...> wrote:
>
> Mike, thanks for the information.
> I have found a pair with a 3 1/8" hole and 3" deep,and 8" openning at the top.
with the rotors ,the water heater tanks, a 55 gal. drum and an old tank from a
small sand blaster I think I have all the large parts. I have a plan on paper .
just need all the small parts, I think it mite take a little longer to scrounge
all of the small patrs. I will keep the group posted.
>
> --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "Mike LaRosa" <ook187@> wrote:
> >
> > Jason, My current one has a 3.5" hole but most of units I have made have a
3" hole. Hope this picture helps
> > http://www.intergate.com/~mlarosa/images/woodgas/future-hearths.jpg
> > You want the kind that has a deep dish, usually for an emergency brake. You
also want an identical pair so you can bolt them together .. ML
> >
> >
> > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "jason" <jkggg1@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I am in the process of finding parts for a double rotor gasifier and was
wondering what size rotors work best?  I've seen some at the local salvage yard
but I wasn't sure if bigger was better or if they could be too big, etc.
> > >
> >
>

Hello,
You have to figure out what size engine at what rpm you want to run and then
size from there.  I used the calcualtions here.

http://www.woodgas.nl/GB/diy.html

meschke

--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <boblayton@...> wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> I am new to wood gasification and I am looking for a place to start. My
thought is that I should build a small scale gasifier to familiarize myself with
the workings and then build a larger scale modle once I have the basics down.
Any suggestions on where to start would be much appreciated. My ultimate goal is
to generate electricity and to possibly build a vehicle that runs on wood.
Thanks.
>

Hi Bob,

Here is a small gasifier I have been working on:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WoodGas/photos/album/118107394/pic/1497697212/view

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WoodGas/photos/album/118107394/pic/1497697212/view

Terry and Arvid have done a great job running a 5kW generator with it.  I built
it small so that it would be a cheap test rig but it seems to have caught on. 
There is also a much bigger version based on similar 2 stage geometry.  Feel
free to look around in that folder.

Stephen
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob <boblayton@...>
To: WoodGas <WoodGas@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Jun 13, 2012 4:18 pm
Subject: [WoodGas] Newbie




Hello all,

I am new to wood gasification and I am looking for a place to start. My thought
is that I should build a small scale gasifier to familiarize myself with the
workings and then build a larger scale modle once I have the basics down. Any
suggestions on where to start would be much appreciated. My ultimate goal is to
generate electricity and to possibly build a vehicle that runs on wood. Thanks.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Just checking out your gasifier design in files. I see your nozzlering is set in
3 layers, top nozzles, secondry nozzles and hot well nozzle. Top row is set at
60 deg, middle looks some where in the 45 deg range and hot well nozzle around
the 15 deg mark, from the vertical wall of the hopper...sound about right?
With all the nozzles contributing to the air in, how is the size of each nozzle
(internal dimention) calculated? How many nozzles in a ring for the top 2 tiers
each?
Looking down through this imaginary gasifier, i take it that the secondry air
nozzles are bisecting the angle between the nozzles of the top ring?
I found the print off sheets i built my gasifier from, from the APL calculator,
and restriction is calculated at 13.1cm for my 3.5 L v8 at 3000 rpm, I see from
a few posts back that someone suggested a 6" restriction or 150 mm. i saw the
nozzle ring diameter was something like 290mm with 6 nozzles, but cant find the
diameter of the orifice for air....i must be blind, but seem to remember it
being something like 11mm each (x6)
If i adopt your design tweeks, would my top nozzle ring look something like 6 x
5.5mm nozzles, secondry 6 x 5.5mm nozzles and a hot well nozzle of maybe 3mm.
does this sound about right??
Cheers
G

If anyone is interested:

USDA Farm Service Agency Biomass Crop information:

http://content.govdelivery.com/bulletins/gd/USFSA-44b05f

Robin
Ivanhoe, Tx

You are probably aware of it, but some small sand blast hoppers are Galvanized
and the fumes when heated very high are noxious.

Wally

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Gareth,

Sorry I am slow getting back to you.  I updated that "How to build a gasifier"
document with some of my latest test results.  The file is located here:

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/WoodGas/files/Sabbadess/

or here:

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/0DHbT_28oGq9uBqat6rmFCeklZbgRE6zQ68Z1B6_cvLD-MJ1DUz\
hu6s8VZ3xe9Tn2Sdgqw62xAYTuhrDVQdzaVGyH72qrmok/Sabbadess/How%20to%20build%20a%20g\
asifier.pdf

Look on the last three pages for the new stuff.

My latest actual gasifier run(2.5 stage configuration) has the nozzles all at 45
deg and 10in from the fuel hopper floor.  There are three intersecting the 60
degree cone and three at the wall, plus one at the hot well.  I went this way
only because I was reusing old parts, but it seems to work well.  I am a little
concerned about ash build up at the nozzles near the wall but I don't have
enough hours on this configuration to know if it will truly be a problem.  So
far so good.

I don't have a good way to size the nozzles other than to start with 1/8 pipe
for 5kW generators and 1/2 pipe for vehicles and adjust as needed.  I really
think you will be modifying the nozzles for gas "strength" not tar destruction
with this design.

All of the nozzles are at 45 degrees so there is no angle bisection.

Stephen
-----Original Message-----
From: gareth_woolley <gareth_woolley@...>
To: WoodGas <WoodGas@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Jun 14, 2012 12:29 pm
Subject: [WoodGas] Hi sabbadass




Just checking out your gasifier design in files. I see your nozzlering is set in
3 layers, top nozzles, secondry nozzles and hot well nozzle. Top row is set at
60 deg, middle looks some where in the 45 deg range and hot well nozzle around
the 15 deg mark, from the vertical wall of the hopper...sound about right?
With all the nozzles contributing to the air in, how is the size of each nozzle
(internal dimention) calculated? How many nozzles in a ring for the top 2 tiers
each?
Looking down through this imaginary gasifier, i take it that the secondry air
nozzles are bisecting the angle between the nozzles of the top ring?
I found the print off sheets i built my gasifier from, from the APL calculator,
and restriction is calculated at 13.1cm for my 3.5 L v8 at 3000 rpm, I see from
a few posts back that someone suggested a 6" restriction or 150 mm. i saw the
nozzle ring diameter was something like 290mm with 6 nozzles, but cant find the
diameter of the orifice for air....i must be blind, but seem to remember it
being something like 11mm each (x6)
If i adopt your design tweeks, would my top nozzle ring look something like 6 x
5.5mm nozzles, secondry 6 x 5.5mm nozzles and a hot well nozzle of maybe 3mm.
does this sound about right??
Cheers
G







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi All,

Some of you will know that I am working at All Power Labs in Berkeley as an
electronics design engineer.

I'd like to let you know about a new relay board which we have developed
here which eases the problems of integrating engines and gasifiers.

Over the next few months we hope to make this board available to allow
enthusiasts to develop their own gasifier automation and genset control
systems - substantially based on the system we have developed for the Power
Pallet here in Berkeley.

You can find details of the prototype board plus photos on the APL GEK
forum - or read the text below.

http://gekgasifier.com/forums/index.php?/topic/1631-new-relay-board-to-complemen\
t-gcu-pcu/

I will be posting more specific information over the next few weeks.



Ken Boak


*New Relay Board for Gasifier and Genset Automation Integration.*

Electronics and automation forms an ever increasing part of successfully
running a biomass fuel gasifier and generator set.

APL commenced their automation with the introduction of the Gasifier
Control Unit, or GCU some years ago.

With the developments of the Power Pallet, the GCU became the PCU, and this
was interfaced to a discretely wired automation system consisting of DIN
terminals and plug in relays.

With the increasing demands of the Power Pallet genset, a new approach was
needed to control the various engine and generator systems, as the existing
method was time consuming to hand wire, and also prone to wiring mistakes.

On arrival back from the UK, I set about designing a new circuit board,
that would eliminate almost all of the discrete wiring used in the relay
box.

The new relay board complements the PCU and provides all the existing
relays, fuses, power supply, connectors and other analogue and digital
interfaces needed to monitor and control biomass power generation systems.

[image:
relay_1.jpg]<http://gekgasifier.com/forums/index.php?app=core&module=attach§\
ion=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=184>


The relays are compact automotive types capable of switching up to 40A at
12V dc. Each power relay has it's own automotive blade type fuse for load
protection and ease of servicing.

As well as the existing relay controlled gasifier functions, such as grate
shaker, flare ignitor and fuel auger motor an extra channel has been
included to deal with future expansion.

The auger motor circuit has Hall Effect current sensing and motor reversing
- allowing the PCU to detect a potential mechanical fuel blockage in the
auger feed, and take preventative measures, including reversing the motor
to ease the woodchip jam and attempt another operation.

On the generator side, the relay board provides relays for energising the
engine starter solenoid and powering up the ignition.

The PCU has several analogue input channels, and these are now used for oil
pressure and coolant temperature monitoring, interfacing to an O2 sensor,
and sensing of the throttle position.

The PCU has always been short of digital output channels, so the relay
board provides an additional 16 low side FET switching channels.

The relay board uses standard 0.2" (5.08mm) Eurostyle terminal blocks - for
16awg wiring capable of handling up to 16A per pin.

The PCU can be mounted centrally on top of the relay board - providing a
closely connected system.

[image:
relay_PCU.jpg]<http://gekgasifier.com/forums/index.php?app=core&module=attach&se\
ction=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=183>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Ken Boak
 
what kind of cost will you be selling the boards
sergio

________________________________
Da: Ken Boak <ken.boak@...>
A: WoodGas@yahoogroups.com
Inviato: Sabato 16 Giugno 2012 4:18
Oggetto: [WoodGas] New Relay Board for Genset and Gasifier Integration


 
Hi All,

Some of you will know that I am working at All Power Labs in Berkeley as an
electronics design engineer.

I'd like to let you know about a new relay board which we have developed
here which eases the problems of integrating engines and gasifiers.

Over the next few months we hope to make this board available to allow
enthusiasts to develop their own gasifier automation and genset control
systems - substantially based on the system we have developed for the Power
Pallet here in Berkeley.

You can find details of the prototype board plus photos on the APL GEK
forum - or read the text below.

http://gekgasifier.com/forums/index.php?/topic/1631-new-relay-board-to-complemen\
t-gcu-pcu/

I will be posting more specific information over the next few weeks.

Ken Boak

*New Relay Board for Gasifier and Genset Automation Integration.*

Electronics and automation forms an ever increasing part of successfully
running a biomass fuel gasifier and generator set.

APL commenced their automation with the introduction of the Gasifier
Control Unit, or GCU some years ago.

With the developments of the Power Pallet, the GCU became the PCU, and this
was interfaced to a discretely wired automation system consisting of DIN
terminals and plug in relays.

With the increasing demands of the Power Pallet genset, a new approach was
needed to control the various engine and generator systems, as the existing
method was time consuming to hand wire, and also prone to wiring mistakes.

On arrival back from the UK, I set about designing a new circuit board,
that would eliminate almost all of the discrete wiring used in the relay
box.

The new relay board complements the PCU and provides all the existing
relays, fuses, power supply, connectors and other analogue and digital
interfaces needed to monitor and control biomass power generation systems.

[image:
relay_1.jpg]<http://gekgasifier.com/forums/index.php?app=core&module=attach§\
ion=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=184>

The relays are compact automotive types capable of switching up to 40A at
12V dc. Each power relay has it's own automotive blade type fuse for load
protection and ease of servicing.

As well as the existing relay controlled gasifier functions, such as grate
shaker, flare ignitor and fuel auger motor an extra channel has been
included to deal with future expansion.

The auger motor circuit has Hall Effect current sensing and motor reversing
- allowing the PCU to detect a potential mechanical fuel blockage in the
auger feed, and take preventative measures, including reversing the motor
to ease the woodchip jam and attempt another operation.

On the generator side, the relay board provides relays for energising the
engine starter solenoid and powering up the ignition.

The PCU has several analogue input channels, and these are now used for oil
pressure and coolant temperature monitoring, interfacing to an O2 sensor,
and sensing of the throttle position.

The PCU has always been short of digital output channels, so the relay
board provides an additional 16 low side FET switching channels.

The relay board uses standard 0.2" (5.08mm) Eurostyle terminal blocks - for
16awg wiring capable of handling up to 16A per pin.

The PCU can be mounted centrally on top of the relay board - providing a
closely connected system.

[image:
relay_PCU.jpg]<http://gekgasifier.com/forums/index.php?app=core&module=attach&se\
ction=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=183>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Ken, Those 40 amp relays are the cat's meow !! I use them in my PV and wind
controller systems. They are rated at 40 amps DC, again I say DC, again I say DC
.. It is hard to explain to folks the difference between DC contacts and AC
contacts. For example an AC hot water heater thermostat will be rated at 240V
and 30 amps AC but the contacts will fuse with 160 volts at 4 amps DC ..
Basically they do not have enough spacing between the contacts and then they do
not stop the arc fast enough and metal will transfer between one contact and the
other and then they will eventually fuse .. If you have problems with this just
add a capacitor and resistor or the such across the contacts to stop the arc ..
If you find yourself in the midwest again, please let me know so we can plan a
meeting .. Mike LaRosa


--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, Ken Boak <ken.boak@...> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> Some of you will know that I am working at All Power Labs in Berkeley as an
> electronics design engineer.
>
> I'd like to let you know about a new relay board which we have developed
> here which eases the problems of integrating engines and gasifiers.
>
> Over the next few months we hope to make this board available to allow
> enthusiasts to develop their own gasifier automation and genset control
> systems - substantially based on the system we have developed for the Power
> Pallet here in Berkeley.
>
> You can find details of the prototype board plus photos on the APL GEK
> forum - or read the text below.
>
>
http://gekgasifier.com/forums/index.php?/topic/1631-new-relay-board-to-complemen\
t-gcu-pcu/
>
> I will be posting more specific information over the next few weeks.
>
>
>
> Ken Boak
>
>
> *New Relay Board for Gasifier and Genset Automation Integration.*
>
> Electronics and automation forms an ever increasing part of successfully
> running a biomass fuel gasifier and generator set.
>
> APL commenced their automation with the introduction of the Gasifier
> Control Unit, or GCU some years ago.
>
> With the developments of the Power Pallet, the GCU became the PCU, and this
> was interfaced to a discretely wired automation system consisting of DIN
> terminals and plug in relays.
>
> With the increasing demands of the Power Pallet genset, a new approach was
> needed to control the various engine and generator systems, as the existing
> method was time consuming to hand wire, and also prone to wiring mistakes.
>
> On arrival back from the UK, I set about designing a new circuit board,
> that would eliminate almost all of the discrete wiring used in the relay
> box.
>
> The new relay board complements the PCU and provides all the existing
> relays, fuses, power supply, connectors and other analogue and digital
> interfaces needed to monitor and control biomass power generation systems.
>
> [image:
relay_1.jpg]<http://gekgasifier.com/forums/index.php?app=core&module=attach§\
ion=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=184>
>
>
> The relays are compact automotive types capable of switching up to 40A at
> 12V dc. Each power relay has it's own automotive blade type fuse for load
> protection and ease of servicing.
>
> As well as the existing relay controlled gasifier functions, such as grate
> shaker, flare ignitor and fuel auger motor an extra channel has been
> included to deal with future expansion.
>
> The auger motor circuit has Hall Effect current sensing and motor reversing
> - allowing the PCU to detect a potential mechanical fuel blockage in the
> auger feed, and take preventative measures, including reversing the motor
> to ease the woodchip jam and attempt another operation.
>
> On the generator side, the relay board provides relays for energising the
> engine starter solenoid and powering up the ignition.
>
> The PCU has several analogue input channels, and these are now used for oil
> pressure and coolant temperature monitoring, interfacing to an O2 sensor,
> and sensing of the throttle position.
>
> The PCU has always been short of digital output channels, so the relay
> board provides an additional 16 low side FET switching channels.
>
> The relay board uses standard 0.2" (5.08mm) Eurostyle terminal blocks - for
> 16awg wiring capable of handling up to 16A per pin.
>
> The PCU can be mounted centrally on top of the relay board - providing a
> closely connected system.
>
> [image:
relay_PCU.jpg]<http://gekgasifier.com/forums/index.php?app=core&module=attach&se\
ction=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=183>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hi sabbadass, I tried following your second link and no dice, it wont load as
web page has expired..
I looked at the first link and am happy with the set up in terms of visualising
the built piece, just sizing issues now for the nozzles.
Going from APLs dimentions for the gasifier i ve built, i found a last sheet of
data in which the nozzles are 6 at 1.24cm dia(each) for my 3.5 v8 running
3000rpm (thanks for the info guys) Are you suggesting i do 2 rows of 3 nozzles
at the same sizing or more of larger nozzles closer to the hearth, smaller for
the top row, just sort of prepping the wood stock as it approaches the heat?
Cheers
G

--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, sabbadess@... wrote:
>
>
> Hi Gareth,
>
> Sorry I am slow getting back to you.  I updated that "How to build a gasifier"
document with some of my latest test results.  The file is located here:
>
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/WoodGas/files/Sabbadess/
>
> or here:
>
>
http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/0DHbT_28oGq9uBqat6rmFCeklZbgRE6zQ68Z1B6_cvLD-MJ1DUz\
hu6s8VZ3xe9Tn2Sdgqw62xAYTuhrDVQdzaVGyH72qrmok/Sabbadess/How%20to%20build%20a%20g\
asifier.pdf
>
> Look on the last three pages for the new stuff.
>
> My latest actual gasifier run(2.5 stage configuration) has the nozzles all at
45 deg and 10in from the fuel hopper floor.  There are three intersecting the 60
degree cone and three at the wall, plus one at the hot well.  I went this way
only because I was reusing old parts, but it seems to work well.  I am a little
concerned about ash build up at the nozzles near the wall but I don't have
enough hours on this configuration to know if it will truly be a problem.  So
far so good.
>
> I don't have a good way to size the nozzles other than to start with 1/8 pipe
for 5kW generators and 1/2 pipe for vehicles and adjust as needed.  I really
think you will be modifying the nozzles for gas "strength" not tar destruction
with this design.
>
> All of the nozzles are at 45 degrees so there is no angle bisection.
>
> Stephen
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gareth_woolley <gareth_woolley@...>
> To: WoodGas <WoodGas@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thu, Jun 14, 2012 12:29 pm
> Subject: [WoodGas] Hi sabbadass
>
>
>
>
> Just checking out your gasifier design in files. I see your nozzlering is set
in 3 layers, top nozzles, secondry nozzles and hot well nozzle. Top row is set
at 60 deg, middle looks some where in the 45 deg range and hot well nozzle
around the 15 deg mark, from the vertical wall of the hopper...sound about
right?
> With all the nozzles contributing to the air in, how is the size of each
nozzle (internal dimention) calculated? How many nozzles in a ring for the top 2
tiers each?
> Looking down through this imaginary gasifier, i take it that the secondry air
nozzles are bisecting the angle between the nozzles of the top ring?
> I found the print off sheets i built my gasifier from, from the APL
calculator, and restriction is calculated at 13.1cm for my 3.5 L v8 at 3000 rpm,
I see from a few posts back that someone suggested a 6" restriction or 150 mm. i
saw the nozzle ring diameter was something like 290mm with 6 nozzles, but cant
find the diameter of the orifice for air....i must be blind, but seem to
remember it being something like 11mm each (x6)
> If i adopt your design tweeks, would my top nozzle ring look something like 6
x 5.5mm nozzles, secondry 6 x 5.5mm nozzles and a hot well nozzle of maybe 3mm.
does this sound about right??
> Cheers
> G
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hi Gareth,

That sounds about correct.  At 25.4cm from the gasifier floor I would do three
1.24cm nozzles at the hopper wall, three 1.24cm nozzles intersecting the flow
cone, and one feeding air to the hot well.  You may find that you want a second
hot well feed nozzle since Max is such a gas gulper, but I would start with one.

You touched on something that I should have written explicitly.  My feeling is
that the first nozzles at the wall reduce the size of the fuel to keep it
flowing(making tar gas in the process), the second row "cooks" out all the rest
of the volatiles and burns tar from the first set of nozzles providing oxygen
all the way to the centerline of the machine, and finally the hot well nozzle is
a pure charcoal gasifier which burns any tar that might have made it past the
second stage.

We(myself included) often write that a gasifier should be built to suit a
particular fuel size and type.  I don't REALLY believe this.  What I am trying
to prove to myself is that by using multiple stages the flows to each stage will
simply rebalance themselves automatically to suit the fuel chunkiness.  If you
have a fine fuel like chips most of the flow will go through the hot well nozzle
due to the fuel bed pressure drop.  If the fuel is blockier, the upper nozzles
will get more flow through them.  In any scenario, the char will still pass
through the restriction AT THE SAME COARSENESS.  If this all works then the
gasifier will ALWAYS run tar free and only the gas potency will change.  That's
the theory anyway.  Now I need to put my metal where my mouth is.

Stephen
-----Original Message-----
From: gareth_woolley <gareth_woolley@...>
To: WoodGas <WoodGas@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Jun 18, 2012 5:10 am
Subject: [WoodGas] Re: Hi sabbadass




Hi sabbadass, I tried following your second link and no dice, it wont load as
web page has expired..
I looked at the first link and am happy with the set up in terms of visualising
the built piece, just sizing issues now for the nozzles.
Going from APLs dimentions for the gasifier i ve built, i found a last sheet of
data in which the nozzles are 6 at 1.24cm dia(each) for my 3.5 v8 running
3000rpm (thanks for the info guys) Are you suggesting i do 2 rows of 3 nozzles
at the same sizing or more of larger nozzles closer to the hearth, smaller for
the top row, just sort of prepping the wood stock as it approaches the heat?
Cheers
G

--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, sabbadess@... wrote:
>
>
> Hi Gareth,
>
> Sorry I am slow getting back to you. I updated that "How to build a gasifier"
document with some of my latest test results. The file is located here:
>
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/WoodGas/files/Sabbadess/
>
> or here:
>
>
http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/0DHbT_28oGq9uBqat6rmFCeklZbgRE6zQ68Z1B6_cvLD-MJ1DUz\
hu6s8VZ3xe9Tn2Sdgqw62xAYTuhrDVQdzaVGyH72qrmok/Sabbadess/How%20to%20build%20a%20g\
asifier.pdf
>
> Look on the last three pages for the new stuff.
>
> My latest actual gasifier run(2.5 stage configuration) has the nozzles all at
45 deg and 10in from the fuel hopper floor. There are three intersecting the 60
degree cone and three at the wall, plus one at the hot well. I went this way
only because I was reusing old parts, but it seems to work well. I am a little
concerned about ash build up at the nozzles near the wall but I don't have
enough hours on this configuration to know if it will truly be a problem. So far
so good.
>
> I don't have a good way to size the nozzles other than to start with 1/8 pipe
for 5kW generators and 1/2 pipe for vehicles and adjust as needed. I really
think you will be modifying the nozzles for gas "strength" not tar destruction
with this design.
>
> All of the nozzles are at 45 degrees so there is no angle bisection.
>
> Stephen
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gareth_woolley <gareth_woolley@...>
> To: WoodGas <WoodGas@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thu, Jun 14, 2012 12:29 pm
> Subject: [WoodGas] Hi sabbadass
>
>
>
>
> Just checking out your gasifier design in files. I see your nozzlering is set
in 3 layers, top nozzles, secondry nozzles and hot well nozzle. Top row is set
at 60 deg, middle looks some where in the 45 deg range and hot well nozzle
around the 15 deg mark, from the vertical wall of the hopper...sound about
right?
> With all the nozzles contributing to the air in, how is the size of each
nozzle (internal dimention) calculated? How many nozzles in a ring for the top 2
tiers each?
> Looking down through this imaginary gasifier, i take it that the secondry air
nozzles are bisecting the angle between the nozzles of the top ring?
> I found the print off sheets i built my gasifier from, from the APL
calculator, and restriction is calculated at 13.1cm for my 3.5 L v8 at 3000 rpm,
I see from a few posts back that someone suggested a 6" restriction or 150 mm. i
saw the nozzle ring diameter was something like 290mm with 6 nozzles, but cant
find the diameter of the orifice for air....i must be blind, but seem to
remember it being something like 11mm each (x6)
> If i adopt your design tweeks, would my top nozzle ring look something like 6
x 5.5mm nozzles, secondry 6 x 5.5mm nozzles and a hot well nozzle of maybe 3mm.
does this sound about right??
> Cheers
> G
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gareth,

After several days forced drying my apple prunings have gone from 107g
to 41g.

Moisture content of arounf 65%. Drying this out will take a large
proportion of the power in your gasifier. Which confirms the most
important think about gasifiers - feedstock is first consideration.

Colin Bull

Dear Colin

The percentage of dry wood is 41/107 = 38.3% The percentage of moisture in the
initial "wood + moisture" sample was
(107-41)/107 = 66/107 =  61.7% moisture Wet Basis.

Best wishes,

Kevin

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Colin Bull
   To: WoodGas@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 8:25 AM
   Subject: [WoodGas] Re: my wood



   Gareth,

   After several days forced drying my apple prunings have gone from 107g
   to 41g.

   Moisture content of arounf 65%. Drying this out will take a large
   proportion of the power in your gasifier. Which confirms the most
   important think about gasifiers - feedstock is first consideration.

   Colin Bull




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

times to come !!! Sergio

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

http://www.socialphy.com/posts/art/10355/Paw_a-Kuczy_skiego---Conceptual-art-wit\
h-a-profound-messag.html


________________________________
Da: sergio loddi <sergio_loddi@...>
A: "WoodGas@yahoogroups.com" <WoodGas@yahoogroups.com>
Inviato: Martedì 19 Giugno 2012 16:57
Oggetto: [WoodGas] some people get blood out of a stone!


 
times to come !!! Sergio

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]