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  • Category: Petroleum
  • Founded: Oct 22, 2005
  • Language: English
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#7406 From: scott munson <scott@...>
Date: Wed Dec 2, 2009 12:31 am
Subject: Fwd: Ask a Scientist [Dec 9]: SF's Primeval Waterscape
scott@...
Send Email Send Email
 
From: Juliana Gallin <julianagallin@...>
Date: December 1, 2009 4:18:00 PM PST
Subject: Ask a Scientist [Dec 9]: SF's Primeval Waterscape

Hi everyone,
Happy holidays! Speaking of which, don't forget to consult the Ask a Scientist bookstore for your gift shopping. Lots of amazing books, many of which are written by AaS speakers: http://askascientistsf.com/bookstore.html  But before we all cloister ourselves away for the holiday festivities, I hope to see you at AaS's final event of 2009...

TOPIC: San Francisco's Primeval Waterscape
Did you know that the southeastern portion of San Francisco was once dominated by the watersheds of two large creeks, Mission and Islais, while large parts of the north and west of the city had no creeks at all because they were covered with sand dunes? Our waterscape has changed dramatically over the years, from the natural creek- and dune-scape to today's modern sewersheds. Come learn about the unique features of San Francisco's primeval waterscape and find out how the city used and abused its many creeks and lakes as it grew into the modern metropolis we call home. The Oakland Museum of California's Christopher Richard will explain the geological and political history of this transformation and will take us on a virtual tour of the remaining free-running creeks in San Francisco (which you can visit!).

SPEAKER: Christopher Richard, Curator of Aquatic Biology, Oakland Museum of California
WHEN: Wednesday, December 9th, 7:00 pm
WHERE: Axis Cafe, 1201 8th Street (btw. 16th & Irwin) San Francisco

ADMISSION IS FREE, but please support our generous hosts at Axis Cafe by bringing your appetite and enjoying dinner during the talk.

NOTE: indoor seating will be limited, but weather permitting, a projector and screen will be set up outside on the patio so everyone can still see and hear the show. Bundle up!

See you soon,
Juliana

Ask a Scientist



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#7407 From: Dennis Brumm <brumm@...>
Date: Wed Dec 2, 2009 5:43 pm
Subject: Monsanto Found Guilty of Lying
dennisbrumm
Send Email Send Email
 
http://www.foodconsumer.org/newsite/Politics/Politics/france_finds_monsanto_guil\
ty_of_lying_211120090805.html

France's highest court has ruled that U.S. agrochemical giant
Monsanto had not told the truth about the safety of its best-selling
weed-killer, Roundup. The court confirmed an earlier judgment that
Monsanto had falsely advertised its herbicide as "biodegradable" and
claimed it "left the soil clean." Roundup is the world's best-selling
herbicide. [...]

#7408 From: Pat Gerber <pattgerber@...>
Date: Thu Dec 3, 2009 5:57 am
Subject: The SEC Opens Wall Street's "Big Oil Casino"
pattgerber@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Check out the post at
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/11/23/807197/-Wherein-The-SEC-Opens-Wall-Stre\
ets-Big-Oil-Casino

Excerpt:  … the SEC is now enabling big oil to mark-to-model their
potential/future revenues based upon blue smoke and mirrors--and
little more than a few fancy Powerpoint presentations--as they relate
to the totally bogus concept that peak oil has not peaked and that,
through some miracle or act of god, the Earth is awash in massive new
underground seas of black gold, just awaiting big oil's divine
intervention, but after companies such as BP, Exxon-Mobil and Shell
add those resources/assets to its balance sheets, regardless of
whether or not those oil reserves even exist! … big oil now has a
license to totally deceive their stockholders and the public about the
breadth and value of their oil reserves.

Pat

#7409 From: Bryan Boot <bboot@...>
Date: Thu Dec 3, 2009 6:31 am
Subject: Re: The SEC Opens Wall Street's "Big Oil Casino"
doublefly888
Send Email Send Email
 
Cool.  There are some fun peak oil polls at that site too:
http://www.dailykos.com/tag/peak%20oil


On Dec 2, 2009, at 9:57 PM, Pat Gerber wrote:

> Check out the post at
>
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/11/23/807197/-Wherein-The-SEC-Opens-Wall-Stre\
ets-Big-Oil-Casino
>
> Excerpt:  … the SEC is now enabling big oil to mark-to-model their
> potential/future revenues based upon blue smoke and mirrors--and
> little more than a few fancy Powerpoint presentations--as they relate
> to the totally bogus concept that peak oil has not peaked and that,
> through some miracle or act of god, the Earth is awash in massive new
> underground seas of black gold, just awaiting big oil's divine
> intervention, but after companies such as BP, Exxon-Mobil and Shell
> add those resources/assets to its balance sheets, regardless of
> whether or not those oil reserves even exist! … big oil now has a
> license to totally deceive their stockholders and the public about the
> breadth and value of their oil reserves.
>
> Pat
>

#7410 From: David Herron <david@...>
Date: Thu Dec 3, 2009 7:31 am
Subject: Re: The SEC Opens Wall Street's "Big Oil Casino"
reikiman
Send Email Send Email
 

Hurm.. In a quickie post on my blog a few minutes ago I wrote a rant about the idiocy that policy decisions in governments and businesses around the world are being made based on phoney "energy" supply numbers published by oil companies, oil producing countries, the IEA, and others.  They're all lying about the supplies and resources, and ...uh...


Written right after reading


On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 9:57 PM, Pat Gerber <pattgerber@...> wrote:
Check out the post at
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/11/23/807197/-Wherein-The-SEC-Opens-Wall-Streets-Big-Oil-Casino

Excerpt:  … the SEC is now enabling big oil to mark-to-model their
potential/future revenues based upon blue smoke and mirrors--and
little more than a few fancy Powerpoint presentations--as they relate
to the totally bogus concept that peak oil has not peaked and that,
through some miracle or act of god, the Earth is awash in massive new
underground seas of black gold, just awaiting big oil's divine
intervention, but after companies such as BP, Exxon-Mobil and Shell
add those resources/assets to its balance sheets, regardless of
whether or not those oil reserves even exist! … big oil now has a
license to totally deceive their stockholders and the public about the
breadth and value of their oil reserves.

Pat


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#7411 From: Michael Poremba <michael_poremba@...>
Date: Fri Dec 4, 2009 7:25 pm
Subject: Solutions, Mitigation, Adaptation, etc.
michael_poremba
Send Email Send Email
 
From the oil drum. Read also the comment from Nate re: use of the term "solution".


 

Feed: The Oil Drum - Discussions about Energy and Our Future
Posted on: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:15 PM
Author: Nate Hagens
Subject: Solutions, Mitigation, Adaptation, etc.

 

When I first started my Phd 4+ years ago, I was fascinated, concerned and rather obsessed with the various details surrounding the limits-to-growth phenomenon, a situation I had been blissfully unaware of up until around 2000. I delved deep into the specifics of peak oil, non-energy input limitations, and neuroscience based drivers of our resource demand that would be difficult to work in reverse. My advisor, Robert Costanza was much more 'solutions' focused - and much less interested in such details as the date of Peak Oil, subsequent decline rate or debt/energy relationship. He had analyzed and written about net energy and biophysical limits decades ago and had seen the general writing on the wall. Via possibly different paths, I've now arrived at the same place as he: I've learned enough of our complicated socio-economic tapestry to stop delving into the details and start to think about solutions.
This Campfire is a brief announcement of a new publication, "Solutions", and some thoughts in that direction.
There is a new hard-copy and online journal pertaining to 'solutions', overseen by Robert Costanza, David Orr, Paul Hawken and John Todd. (I encourage everyone to read the great essay by Dana Meadows on leverage points linked above and below).
Here is an excerpt from their main page:
The aim of Solutions is to encourage and publish integrative solutions to the world’s most pressing problems: climate disruption, loss of biodiversity, poverty, energy descent, overfishing, air, water, and soil pollution, and human population growth, to name a few. There is already plenty of discussion about these problems, along with an abundance of isolated and technical solutions, some of which may prove to be extremely valuable. Solutions is a forum for putting the pieces together, prompting intelligent discussion of what can be done, and what should be done. To read Editor-in-Chief Robert Costanza's vision for Solutions, click here.
Solutions is an online and print journal, a hybrid between a popular magazine and a peer-reviewed journal. It is intended for a broad audience that reaches beyond traditional academic journals to the informed public. It will provide a much-needed forum, devoted to whole-system solutions and the design of an integrated human and natural world.
Solutions uses a much more constructive, transdisciplinary review process than typical journals. We encourage collaboration and co-authorship between original authors and reviewers.
This constructive review process improves the quality of articles and enables the development of innovative, integrative, and whole-system solutions. It allows for broader, more transdisciplinary perspectives on a topic, creating articles that appeal to a larger community, with a stronger chance of being implemented.
What qualifies as a solution?
We are looking for solutions that are seriously creative: they should be novel, perhaps even surprising, but also well-thought out and credible.
We prefer solutions that take a whole-systems approach. What do we mean by that? A system can be a community, a corporation, a government, or even the entire global environment. If you want to solve a problem, you need to look at these systems in their entirety and at several, nested scales, from local to global. Rather than focusing on a single link, look at the whole chain. When you start looking at the world this way, it becomes clear: everything is connected.
What are examples? A solution can be local, such as the development of a sustainable eco-village or eco-city. Or it can be grand and global, the development of an atmospheric trust to cap and trade greenhouse gases.
It doesn’t have to solve all problems, but it should recognize what problems it can solve, and what others it might cause. Solutions should address the institutional and cultural changes that may be required.
Problems can be solved at many levels. Dana Meadows, founder of the Sustainability Institute, described the most effective places to act as leverage points. At what point in the system–from a corporation to the global environment–can you make a small shift and spark a major change? A solution can be as simple as a shift in taxes or subsidies, or it can try to change the global economy. We welcome concrete goals, but we won’t shy away from efforts to think outside the system or transcend a paradigm.
Nate here. When we discuss “Solutions” we should be aware that under wide boundary conditions, there are of course NO solutions optimal for everyone/thing. Different demographics, different generations, different species etc will be better or worse off. I prefer the term 'mitigation' as the problems facing human civilization probably have a collective empty set solution. CLEARLY however, there are many many benign paths relative to the current default one, and I applaud the efforts to create a Solutions Journal instead of further scientific refining of threads of a tapestry whose emerging image is pretty obvious. Irrespective of whether you call it 'solutions' or 'mitigation', I think the time is well past for analysis and ripe for bold, surprising action. Before we see either bold or surprising actions, however, we might need to define, either consciously or otherwise, what our real goals are: solutions or mitigation for whom and over what time scale? If we never address the 'who' or 'what,' the 'how' will be difficult to achieve.
My own feeling is that sustainability or sustainability-lite are both dead in the water if we continue to focus on supply side changes. Unless we address a) the reward superhighway in our neural structure that results in cravings for higher and higher reward baselines and b) self-deception and belief systems inhibiting behavioral change, we will probably slow the descent of the current paradigm but not change its trajectory. These are the two areas that I will personally be researching, exploring, and writing about going forward.



The information contained in this message may be confidential and legally protected under applicable law. The message is intended solely for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this message is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.

#7412 From: Dennis Brumm <brumm@...>
Date: Sat Dec 5, 2009 8:52 pm
Subject: Re: Solutions, Mitigation, Adaptation, etc.
dennisbrumm
Send Email Send Email
 
It is an interesting path Nate has taken, almost diametrically
opposed to the one I have concluded is going to happen. It will be
interesting beyond talk about mitigation or solutions to see any of
them put into practice, i.e. something that is making a difference
that will make a change that matters in the sphere and scope and
scale of our looming problems. If they require changes for the worse
in the human condition, it will be even more interesting to see  how
it is sold to enough of us humans as a necessary change for the
benefit of us all. That certainly would have to benefit the whole
ecosystem as well, and would be diametrically opposed to what we're
doing. It would likely have to involve violence, like it or not. Of
course we have a violent world every day already, it just would
probably have to be focused at a different population than it has been.

#7413 From: Dennis Brumm <brumm@...>
Date: Sun Dec 6, 2009 2:12 am
Subject: 8 Weird Ways to "Save the Earth"
dennisbrumm
Send Email Send Email
 
#7414 From: "RichardK" <richard@...>
Date: Mon Dec 7, 2009 4:43 am
Subject: Re: Solutions, Mitigation, Adaptation, etc.
richardmckatz
Send Email Send Email
 
Have I mentioned Dennis... I like Michael.

--- In sfbayoil@yahoogroups.com, Michael Poremba <michael_poremba@...> wrote:
>
> From the oil drum. Read also the comment from Nate re: use of the term
"solution".
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>
> Feed: The Oil Drum - Discussions about Energy and Our Future
> Posted on: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:15 PM
> Author: Nate Hagens
> Subject: Solutions, Mitigation, Adaptation, etc.
>  
>
>
>
>
> When I first started my Phd 4+ years ago, I was fascinated, concerned and
rather obsessed with the various details surrounding the limits-to-growth
phenomenon, a situation I had been blissfully unaware of up until around 2000. I
delved deep into the specifics of peak oil, non-energy input limitations, and
neuroscience based drivers of our resource demand that would be difficult to
work in reverse. My advisor, Robert Costanza was much more 'solutions' focused -
and much less interested in such details as the date of Peak Oil, subsequent
decline rate or debt/energy relationship. He had analyzed and written about net
energy and biophysical limits decades ago and had seen the general writing on
the wall. Via possibly different paths, I've now arrived at the same place as
he: I've learned enough of our complicated socio-economic tapestry to stop
delving into the details and start to think about solutions.
> This Campfire is a brief announcement of a new publication, "Solutions", and
some thoughts in that direction.
> There is a new hard-copy and online journal pertaining to 'solutions',
overseen by Robert Costanza, David Orr, Paul Hawken and John Todd. (I encourage
everyone to read the great essay by Dana Meadows on leverage points linked above
and below).
> Here is an excerpt from their main page:
>
> The aim of Solutions is to encourage and publish integrative solutions to the
world’s most pressing problems: climate disruption, loss of biodiversity,
poverty, energy descent, overfishing, air, water, and soil pollution, and human
population growth, to name a few. There is already plenty of discussion about
these problems, along with an abundance of isolated and technical solutions,
some of which may prove to be extremely valuable. Solutions is a forum for
putting the pieces together, prompting intelligent discussion of what can be
done, and what should be done. To read Editor-in-Chief Robert Costanza's vision
for Solutions, click here.
> Solutions is an online and print journal, a hybrid between a popular magazine
and a peer-reviewed journal. It is intended for a broad audience that reaches
beyond traditional academic journals to the informed public. It will provide a
much-needed forum, devoted to whole-system solutions and the design of an
integrated human and natural world.
> Solutions uses a much more constructive, transdisciplinary review process than
typical journals. We encourage collaboration and co-authorship between original
authors and reviewers.
> This constructive review process improves the quality of articles and enables
the development of innovative, integrative, and whole-system solutions. It
allows for broader, more transdisciplinary perspectives on a topic, creating
articles that appeal to a larger community, with a stronger chance of being
implemented.
> What qualifies as a solution?
> We are looking for solutions that are seriously creative: they should be
novel, perhaps even surprising, but also well-thought out and credible.
> We prefer solutions that take a whole-systems approach. What do we mean by
that? A system can be a community, a corporation, a government, or even the
entire global environment. If you want to solve a problem, you need to look at
these systems in their entirety and at several, nested scales, from local to
global. Rather than focusing on a single link, look at the whole chain. When you
start looking at the world this way, it becomes clear: everything is connected.
> What are examples? A solution can be local, such as the development of a
sustainable eco-village or eco-city. Or it can be grand and global, the
development of an atmospheric trust to cap and trade greenhouse gases.
> It doesn’t have to solve all problems, but it should recognize what problems
it can solve, and what others it might cause. Solutions should address the
institutional and cultural changes that may be required.
> Problems can be solved at many levels. Dana Meadows, founder of the
Sustainability Institute, described the most effective places to act as leverage
points. At what point in the systemâ€"from a corporation to the global
environmentâ€"can you make a small shift and spark a major change? A solution
can be as simple as a shift in taxes or subsidies, or it can try to change the
global economy. We welcome concrete goals, but we won’t shy away from efforts
to think outside the system or transcend a paradigm.
> Nate here. When we discuss “Solutions” we should be aware that under wide
boundary conditions, there are of course NO solutions optimal for
everyone/thing. Different demographics, different generations, different species
etc will be better or worse off. I prefer the term 'mitigation' as the problems
facing human civilization probably have a collective empty set solution. CLEARLY
however, there are many many benign paths relative to the current default one,
and I applaud the efforts to create a Solutions Journal instead of further
scientific refining of threads of a tapestry whose emerging image is pretty
obvious. Irrespective of whether you call it 'solutions' or 'mitigation', I
think the time is well past for analysis and ripe for bold, surprising action.
Before we see either bold or surprising actions, however, we might need to
define, either consciously or otherwise, what our real goals are: solutions or
mitigation for whom and over what time
>  scale? If we never address the 'who' or 'what,' the 'how' will be difficult
to achieve.
> My own feeling is that sustainability or sustainability-lite are both dead in
the water if we continue to focus on supply side changes. Unless we address a)
the reward superhighway in our neural structure that results in cravings for
higher and higher reward baselines and b) self-deception and belief systems
inhibiting behavioral change, we will probably slow the descent of the current
paradigm but not change its trajectory. These are the two areas that I will
personally be researching, exploring, and writing about going forward.
>
>
>
>
> View article...
>
>
> The information contained in this message may be confidential and legally
protected under applicable law. The message is intended solely for the
addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified
that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this message is
strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient,
please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the
original message.
>

#7415 From: "Vladislav Davidzon \[Common Circle Education\]" <newsletter@...>
Date: Mon Dec 7, 2009 6:22 am
Subject: Permaculture and Community Events @ Common Circle Education in Berkeley
commoncircle...
Send Email Send Email
 
Hello friends,

Our new center in Berkeley is up and going, offering over 200 classes
every month in permaculture, yoga, meditation and compassionate
communication at our school at 2130 Center Street in Downtown
Berkeley.  For our full schedule of classes, visit
www.commoncircle.com/berkeley

We are currently offering a completely FREE week-long membership to
all new members.  You can sign up online at commoncircle.com/berkeley
- the membership entitles you to all our classes, including the ones
below!

Every day, we offer yoga classes at 8am, 1pm, 4:30pm and 6pm;
meditation at 7am and noon;  and a variety of other classes below!

Feel free to e-mail info@... with any questions or call
us at 510.400.8152.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Activism: Knowing Your Life’s Purpose For Environmental Action
Cost:    COMPLETELY FREE!

One day you began asking: “Do I have a purpose? Where do I â€fit’ in?

What do I possess that the world needs? During this time of immense
environmental crisis, the world needs people who know their purpose.

Living “purposefully” is both your greatest joy and the thing the
world needs most from you. This presentation/dialogue will help you
answer the question: “How can I know my purpose and place in this
lifetime? How can I know my soul’s calling? How can I contribute
most effectively to the healing and restoration of our planet?”

Guest Instructor Jonathan Gustin, M.A, MFT is the founder of the
Integral Awakening Center of San Francisco, where he teaches
meditation, finding your life’s purpose and integral practice. He is an
instructor at Kaiser Permanente where he teaches Mind/Body Medicine
and Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction. Jonathan has been practicing
integral mentoring and psychotherapy with individuals and couples for
15 years. He is a licensed psychotherapist and integral mentor in
private practice with offices in San Francisco and San Rafael.

Jonathan founded Green Sangha in 2000, a spiritually engaged
environmental activist organization with chapters in Sonoma County, the
East Bay, Marin County and San Francisco. Green Sangha is featured in
the documentary “Renewal,” a film on spiritual communities’
responses
to environmental challenges.

The EarthForum series is our FREE weekly community gathering of
speakers and events focused around permaculture, regenerative design,
and sustainability.

When:  Dec 8th - Tuesday @ 7:00-9:30pm
Cost:    FREE
Where: Common Circle Education @ 2130 Center Street, Berkeley
            510.400.8152
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
---

Introduction to Permaculture - Food Forests, Fruit Trees, Mushrooms
   and Perennials

During this week's class we will discuss food forest design:

- vertical gardening
- nuts and fruits of food forest gardens
- placement of food forests in small urban homesteads
- fruit tree pruning

This is our weekly Introduction to Permaculture class.   No pre-
requisites are required and all are welcome to any of the classes --
we always start with a basic introduction to permaculture design
principles.

When:  Dec 9th - Wednesday @ 7:00-9:30pm
Cost:    $10.00 (credit/debit only - we do not accept cash/checks)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
---

Social Permaculture: From Social Dream to Solidarity in Action
Cost:    COMPLETELY FREE!

Social Permaculture is an approach to relating with each other designed
to create balanced internal ecosystems and thriving communities.

Together we join in dedication to the very real possibility of bringing
healing to our relationship with the planet, to fostering an ecologically
sustainable, socially just human presence on planet Earth.

Why you might want to come:

- You love life and want to pass forward an ecologically sustainable
planet to the future generations.

- You love people, and you want to know that in your life you contributed
to social justice through action dedicated to the common good.

- You love nature, and want to experience your embeddeness within
the natural world first hand.

- You love activism, and want to know that your efforts are rooted in
sustainable energy internally, you want to tap the generative powers of
compassion and insight and bring them to your work.

- You love Joanna Macy, The Work That Reconnects, and you want to be
a part of a community dedicated to sharing the potency of her trainings
with our growing community

This is an introductory workshop and all are welcomed. No pre-
requisite knowledge of permaculture is required.

When:  Dec 10th - Thursday @ 7:00-9:30pm
Cost:    COMPLETELY FREE!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
---

Common Circle Education is a permaculture design and sustainable
living school, offering over 200 classes each month in ecological design,
holistic living, yoga, meditation and compassionate communication.

We are located at 2132 Center Street in Berkeley and on the web at
commoncircle.com.

#7416 From: "Common Circle Education" <newsletter@...>
Date: Mon Dec 7, 2009 6:28 am
Subject: RE: Knowing Your Life’s Purpose For Environmental Action
commoncircle...
Send Email Send Email
 
Dear Friends,

This week we're thrilled to have a special guest joining us for
our Tuesday night Earth Forum Series.  We hope you will be able
to join us for this FREE event!

What:  Talk - Knowing Your Life’s Purpose For Environmental Action
Who:   Jonathan Gustin
Cost:  COMPLETELY FREE!
When:  Tuesday 7:00-9:30pm
Where: Common Circle Education - 2130 Center Street, Berkeley
        510.400.8152

One day you began asking: “Do I have a purpose? Where do I â€fit’ in?

What do I possess that the world needs? During this time of immense
environmental crisis, the world needs people who know their purpose.

Living “purposefully” is both your greatest joy and the thing the
world needs most from you. This presentation/dialogue will help you
answer the question: “How can I know my purpose and place in this
lifetime? How can I know my soul’s calling? How can I contribute
most effectively to the healing and restoration of our planet?”

Guest Instructor Jonathan Gustin, M.A, MFT is the founder of the
Integral Awakening Center of San Francisco, where he teaches
meditation, finding your life’s purpose and integral practice. He is an
instructor at Kaiser Permanente where he teaches Mind/Body Medicine
and Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction. Jonathan has been practicing
integral mentoring and psychotherapy with individuals and couples for
15 years. He is a licensed psychotherapist and integral mentor in
private practice with offices in San Francisco and San Rafael.

Jonathan founded Green Sangha in 2000, a spiritually engaged
environmental activist organization with chapters in Sonoma County, the
East Bay, Marin County and San Francisco. Green Sangha is featured in
the documentary “Renewal,” a film on spiritual communities’
responses to environmental challenges.

The EarthForum series is our FREE weekly community gathering of
speakers and events focused around permaculture, regenerative design,
and sustainability.

#7417 From: Arlen Comfort <acomfort@...>
Date: Mon Dec 7, 2009 6:40 am
Subject: AMERICA 2.0 and Technocracy
a.comfort
Send Email Send Email
 
I thought I should make SfBayOilers aware of this chance to join this Jay Hanson [killer_ape-peak_oil] discussion group.    All the people involved in this group understand peak oilglobal warming and the problems with our economic system.    Jay Hanson runs/controls this site much like he is the teacher/professor of those involved.  

Most of the participants including me are new to Technocracy which parallels some of the work that Jay has done culminating in what he calls America 2.0

Technocracy  and America 2.0  are two attempts to describe a survivable path to the future.     

Jay occasionally opens the list to new members, now is one of those times.

- Arlen 

If you are not already a member of the killer_ape-peak_oil@yahoogroups.com group but wish to join, use this form to send me your email address http://www.warsocialism.com/contact.html



--- On Sun, 12/6/09, Jay Hanson <JayHanson@...> wrote:

From: Jay Hanson <JayHanson@...>
Subject: [killer_ape-peak_oil] AMERICA 2.0 and Technocracy
To: killer_ape-peak_oil@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, December 6, 2009, 9:26 AM

On January 4, 2010, the killer_ape-peak_oil@yahoogroups.com discussion group is hosting a new seminar about AMERICA 2.0 and Technocracy which is expected to last approximately two months.


  Liberal democracies cannot survive “peak oil” in their present form.  Economists cannot foresee this because their models are both defective and superficial, so we are exploring practical responses to the inevitable collapse of the present model.  

 

This seminar will be tightly moderated. The basic format will be presentation followed by a couple of days Q & A on each topic.    We will be discussing the following topics in the following order:

 

#1. AMERICA 2.0 is a plan to place corporations back under democratic control as they were before 1860.   http://www.warsocialism.com/America.htm   

 

#2. History of Technocracy http://www.technocracy.ca/

#3. The Unsustainable Nature of the Price System

 

#4. Transportation Solutions

 

#5. Housing Solutions


#6. Solutions for Providing Food and Medical Care

#7. Government Organization and Management of Production

#8. Energy Accounting

#9. Motivation, Human Behavior, and the Evolution of Society

#10. The Transition

If you are not already a member of the killer_ape-peak_oil@yahoogroups.com group but wish to join, use this form to send me your email address http://www.warsocialism.com/contact.html




#7418 From: Dave Room <daveroom@...>
Date: Tue Dec 8, 2009 5:09 pm
Subject: Dec. 10th, 6p - Slowing Bay Area's Rush Towards Natural Gas (RSVP) + Webinar's and more
daroom
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Home

In this email:
  1. December 10th, 6p - Halting Bay Area's Rush Towards Natural Gas! (RSVP)
  2. December 10, 10-11:15am: Revolving Loan Fund Webinar
  3. December 11, 10-11:15am: Legal Authority & Administering PACE Financing Programs
  4. The Story of Cap and Trade

1. December 10th, 6p - Halting Bay Area's Rush Towards Natural Gas! (RSVP)

The LCEA has open meetings on the second Thursday of every month, featuring informative speakers on renewable energy, energy efficiency, and related efforts.

The next meeting of alliance is December 10th at 6p and will feature a talk on the Bay Area's rush to Natural Gas.

Speakers: Shana Lazerow, Communities for a Better Environment and Rory Cox, Pacific Environment

Shana Lazerowhttp://www.pacificenvironment.org/img/original/rory%20copy.jpg

PG&E is far behind on their renewable targets, while at the same time proposing new, high-capacity natural gas power plants in the Bay Area. The result is an increased reliance on fossil fuels, more greenhouse gas emissions, and public health threats in disadvantaged communities. Outside of California, there is a push for more natural gas drilling in the Rockies as well as LNG import terminals in Oregon and Mexico. Communities, however, are fighting back. In the last few years, community and environmental justice organizations have used air pollution laws and energy analysis to win the rejection of several new power plants. We can do it here!

WHEN: December 10, 6-8 pm

WHERE: Central Historic Building, 436 14th St.
2nd Floor Conference Room, Oakland
(Just up the stairs from the 12th St. BART station)

To be sure we have enough food, please RSVP to Emily at emily@....

2. December 10, 10-11:15am: Revolving Loan Fund Webinar


U.S. Department of Energy Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy Energy Efficiency and Conservation Block Grant Program


On Thursday, December 10, the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) will host a webinar on Revolving Loan Funds. This webinar will describe how Revolving Loan Funds work and best practices for launching and managing a new fund. Program administrators from Texas and Montana will discuss their experience running existing programs. We will also present ideas for standardizing loans, underwriting standards, and consumer protections in a way that allows the loans to be saleable into a secondary market structure to provide more loan capital. 

Presenters

·         Samuel Booth, National Renewable Energy Laboratory

·         Eddy Trevino, Texas LoanStar Program

·         Kathi Montgomery, Montana Alternative Energy Revolving Loan Program

·         Howard Banker, Energy Programs Consortium

RLF resources are also available here.

Please join us:

Revolving Loan Funds
Thursday, December 10 at 1:00-2:15pm EDT

Space is limited. Please register online:

After registering you will receive a confirmation email containing information about joining the webinar.


3. December 11, 10-11:15am: Legal Authority & Administering PACE Financing Programs


U.S. Department of Energy Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy Energy Efficiency and Conservation Block Grant Program

 

 

On Friday, December 11, the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) will host a webinar on “Getting Started: Legal Authority & Administering PACE Financing Programs”. This webinar is for cities, counties, and states considering launching or supporting PACE Financing Programs. Participants who did not attend the first PACE Financing Program webinar should review the slides from November 18 (available here).

 

This session will include:

  • Pointers for passing the state and local laws/ordinances for enabling a PACE program
  • Information on how existing programs are being administered
  • Lessons learned from current program managers

Presenters

  • Sheridan Pauker, Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati
  • Ann Livingston, Boulder County
  • Dorian Dale, Town of Babylon
  • Annie Henderson, Program Administer for CaliforniaFIRST

 

Please join us for:

 

Getting Started: Legal Authority & Administering PACE Financing Programs

Friday, December 11 at 1:00-2:15pm EDT

 

Space is limited.  Please register online.

 

After registering you will receive a confirmation email containing information about joining the webinar.

4. The Story of Cap and Trade

The other day, The Story of Stuff Project launched our brand new short film, The Story of Cap & Trade.

It's a fast-paced, fact-filled look at the leading climate change solution on the table in Copenhagen and in the halls of Congress. If you've heard about cap and trade, but aren't sure how it works (or who benefits), this is the film is for you!

Please take 10 minutes today to watch The Story of Cap & Trade and then check out the film website for more information and ways to get involved.

Two years ago this week we released The Story of Stuff. Since then, you've watched the film on-line or bought a DVD; you've shared it with friends or shown it in your school, community center or house of worship. You've blogged about it, posted it to Facebook or Twitter, and yes, you've even talked about over Sunday dinner.

Nearly 9 million people worldwide have seen The Story of Stuff because of you.

Please help us turn the volume up on real climate solutions at this critical moment by sharing The Story of Cap & Trade with everyone you know.

Over the coming year, we're releasing a series of films like The Story of Cap & Trade that highlight some of the most important sustainability and justice issues of our day.

Please consider making a contribution to the Story of Stuff Project now to support the widespread distribution of The Story of Cap & Trade and all of the other films in the series. 

Thanks for your support. And please, pass it on.


--
Dave Room (aka Melia's Papa)
Coordinator, Local Clean Energy Alliance
www.localcleanenergy.org
daveroom@...

Sign up for Bay Localize News and Alerts today!


#7419 From: Dennis Brumm <brumm@...>
Date: Tue Dec 8, 2009 6:22 pm
Subject: Hanson on Copenhagen
dennisbrumm
Send Email Send Email
 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/dec/02/copenhagen-climate-change-james-hansen

Copenhagen climate change talks must fail, says top scientist

Exclusive: World's leading climate change expert says summit talks so flawed that deal would be a disaster

#7420 From: Paul Nellen <pnellen@...>
Date: Tue Dec 8, 2009 7:47 pm
Subject: WG: Hansen on Copenhagen
pnellen
Send Email Send Email
 
More on Hansen:

Climate Scientist discusses Copenhagen summit
ABC TV [Australia] Lateline's Tony Jones had an
interview with NASA's climatologist James Hansen

http://www.crudeoilpeak.com/?p=767

Pest,

Paul


--- Dennis Brumm <brumm@...> schrieb am Di, 8.12.2009:

Von: Dennis Brumm <brumm@...>
Betreff: [sfbayoil] Hanson on Copenhagen
An: sfbayoil@yahoogroups.com
Datum: Dienstag, 8. Dezember 2009, 19:22











 


   
     
     
     


http://www.guardian .co.uk/environme nt/2009/dec/ 02/copenhagen- climate-change-
james-hansen



Copenhagen climate change talks must fail, says top
scientistExclusive: World's leading climate change expert
says summit talks so flawed that deal would be a disaster



   
     

   
   






 

#7421 From: Dave Room <daveroom@...>
Date: Tue Dec 8, 2009 9:11 pm
Subject: ACT NOW: 30 second to support Local Clean Energy in Marin
daroom
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Good afternoon friends of Local Clean Energy,

Please take thirty seconds to support Marin's Community Choice program. 

Please vote NO in this online poll by Marin Independent Journal: 
http://www.marinij.com/index.html?_requestid=5780032 
(In the right column, the third box from the top, titled Turn out the lights)

It asks whether you favor PULLING THE PLUG on the Marin Clean Energy initiative (i.e., Community Choice in Marin), responding to a recently released Civil Grand Jury report that is full of disinformation and false conclusions.

Please join us in voting NO on pulling the plug on Marin Clean Energy.

Thanks
DaveR

Dave Room
Local Clean Energy Alliance




#7422 From: Dennis Brumm <brumm@...>
Date: Wed Dec 9, 2009 2:52 am
Subject: Ken Garcia's Examiner column today
dennisbrumm
Send Email Send Email
 
Ken is not a columnist I would normally read, but a friend told me to check out his peak oil column today:

http://www.sfexaminer.com/opinion/columns/ken_garcia/Fix-budget-Nah-Solve-global-catastrophe-Yes-78747227.html

Fix budget? Nah. Solve global catastrophe? Yes!


By: Ken Garcia
Examiner Staff Writer
December 8, 2009

People in the know here would never be surprised that the effort to launch a utopian, peace-loving, healthy-eating society would start in San Francisco.

But to do it at a time when the country is facing possibly its worst economic crisis since the Great Depression? This may not be the moment to consider turning Lincoln Park Golf Course into a food garden.

Yet here we are, poised this week to unveil a report that has answers for not only San Francisco’s ills, but for the globe’s ­ and in just 143 pages. And if you can forgive the unwieldy title, “San Francisco Peak Oil Preparedness Task Force Report,” we now have confirmation that the Board of Supervisors, which assigned it, is not just a legislative panel, but a boiling cauldron of social engineering.

#7423 From: Scott Munson <scott@...>
Date: Wed Dec 9, 2009 5:55 am
Subject: 2007 Fwd: CA legislative Water Rip Off: fwd Calif. farmers negotiate U.S. water deal
scott@...
Send Email Send Email
 
They are cutting a deal with dramatically under valued water being used as currency.

Calif. farmers negotiate U.S. water deal

Government appears ready to turn over rights to billions of gallons
The Associated Press
Updated: 4:43 p.m. PT July 31, 2007
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20059520/


Please note the fair use statement after this copyrighted article.
 

Note excerpts from the attached story:

Westlands declined to comment, saying Sen. Dianne Feinstein had asked participants to refrain from speaking about the negotiations in advance of Wednesday's meeting.

Westlands recently hired two former Bush administration officials to help negotiate the deal with the Bureau of Reclamation, a division of the U.S. Department of the Interior. Susan Ramos, a former assistant regional director at the Bureau of Reclamation, and Jason Peltier, former water policy adviser at the Interior Department, both took management posts at the district.

End of excerpts;

Key issue is that many water experts now call water
"Blue Gold",
because of the general consensus that water will become more valuable than oil, in the near future.  It does seem rather strange that this has not been discussed with this issue.

Personal conclusion; they are cutting a deal with dramatically under valued water being used as currency.

In reference:

Blue Gold: The Fight to Stop the Corporate Theft of
the World's Water. ..... Phillips, Peter. Censored 2001:
25 Years of Censored News and Top Stories of ...

http://www. projectcensored.org/publications/2001/1.html

Blue Gold: An Interview with Maude Barlow.
News: In this recent interview with Mother Jones,
water activist Maude Barlow describes how, more
and more, ...
www. motherjones.com/news/qa/2005/01/maude_barlow.html - 46k -

Calif. farmers negotiate U.S. water deal

Government appears ready to turn over rights to billions of gallons
The Associated Press
Updated: 4:43 p.m. PT July 31, 2007

FRESNO, Calif. - The U.S. government appears poised to turn over the rights to billions of gallons of water to a politically connected group of farmers in California, where most people are being asked to conserve.

Landowners in the Westlands Water District would gain the rights to 1 million acre-feet of water under a proposed settlement federal regulators are likely to present Wednesday. An acre-foot translates to the amount needed to cover one acre with a foot of water.

That's 15 percent of the federally controlled water in California, which would make it the largest grant to irrigators since the U.S. Bureau of Reclamation was created in 1903, agency officials said.

The Westlands Water District, a coalition of giant agribusinesses in the fertile San Joaquin Valley, draws its water from the Central Valley Project, a vast irrigation system that also supplies drinking water to about 1 million households.

If drought-like conditions persist in the West, the deal would guarantee the farmers' irrigation pumps will flow, even if that means some cities in the San Francisco Bay area will get less drinking water.

"Can a proposal that appears to put a small group of farm operations ahead of the taxpayers and our fish and wildlife resources be justified because it may help one federal agency deal with a specific drainage problem?" said Hal Candee, a senior attorney with the Natural Resources Defense Council who is participating in the negotiations.

Westlands declined to comment, saying Sen. Dianne Feinstein had asked participants to refrain from speaking about the negotiations in advance of Wednesday's meeting.

Feinstein said in a statement that the purpose of the meeting is "to examine whether the serious drainage issues facing the Valley can be resolved."

Rights for enough water for millions


The proposed settlement, documents for which were obtained by The Associated Press, would give the Westlands farmers a stake in a massive reservoir, millions of dollars in pumps and pipes, and permanent rights to enough water to serve 8 million people.

It is one of two settlements being considered. The second proposal would offer landowners a contract for less water, but would still ensure that Westlands farmers get their water before cities in Santa Clara and Contra Costa counties.

Westlands is the nation's largest water district, and its members include Harris Farms, one of California's biggest farming operations, and Tanimura & Antle, the nation's top lettuce grower.

A decade ago, the district sued the government after a botched federal project left thousands of acres of cropland tainted by salty, polluted runoff, and caused the death or deformation of thousands of birds. The proposed water-rights deal would settle that lawsuit.

Westlands recently hired two former Bush administration officials to help negotiate the deal with the Bureau of Reclamation, a division of the U.S. Department of the Interior. Susan Ramos, a former assistant regional director at the Bureau of Reclamation, and Jason Peltier, former water policy adviser at the Interior Department, both took management posts at the district.

Either plan would need congressional approval.

Bureau officials say the proposals would be cheaper than an official plan registered with the courts that would cost $2.6 billion to ret/ire almost 200,000 acres of tainted Central Valley cropland and clean up salty runoff from surrounding areas.

© 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.






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#7424 From: Dennis Brumm <brumm@...>
Date: Wed Dec 9, 2009 5:59 am
Subject: Re: 2007 Fwd: CA legislative Water Rip Off: fwd Calif. farmers negotiate U.S. water deal
dennisbrumm
Send Email Send Email
 
At 09:55 PM 12/8/2009, you wrote:
>"Blue Gold", because of the general consensus that water will become
>more valuable than oil, in the near future.  It does seem rather
>strange that this has not been discussed with this issue.
>
>Personal conclusion; they are cutting a deal with dramatically under
>valued water being used as currency.

Why has water become so valuable, and why is it suddenly having the
potential of being scarce? Could it be the 7 billion people, the
amount of water needed to "sustain" such a population?

#7425 From: "Steven Robinson" <srobin21@...>
Date: Wed Dec 9, 2009 6:13 am
Subject: Copenhagen - Leaked "Danish text" widens rift between rich and poor nations
srobin262000
Send Email Send Email
 
Copenhagen: Leaked draft deal widens rift between rich and poor nations
 
Climate talks are in disarray barely days into the summit, putting at risk international unity to fight global warming
 
John Videl in Copenhagen
The Guardian - UK
Wednesday, December 8, 2009
 
Three hours after the "Danish text" had been leaked to the Guardian, Lumumba Di-Aping, the Sudanese chairman of the group of 132 developing countries known as G77 plus China, spelt out exactly why the poor countries he represents were so incensed. "The text robs developing countries of their just and equitable and fair share of the atmospheric space. It tries to treat rich and poor countries as equal," said the diplomat.
 
The text is a draft proposal for the final political agreement that should be signed by national leaders including Barack Obama and Gordon Brown at the end of the Copenhagen summit on 18 December. It was prepared in secret by a group of individuals known as "the circle of commitment" but understood to include the US and Denmark.
 
Five hours later, the UN's top climate diplomat had responded. Yvo de Boer said: "This was an informal paper ahead of the conference given to a number of people for the purposes of consultations. The only formal texts in the UN process are the ones tabled by the chairs of this Copenhagen conference at the behest of the parties [involved]."
 
But the representatives of developing nations felt betrayed by the intent of the proposals in the draft.
 
"This text destroys both the UN convention on climate change and the Kyoto protocol. This is aimed at producing a new treaty, a new legal initiative that throws away the basis of [differing] obligations between the poorest and most wealthy nations in the world," said Di-Aping.
 
The existing treaty is the only global agreement that legally obliges rich countries to reduce their emissions.
 
Di-Aping is one of the most outspoken of developing country leaders, at once charming and radical.
 
What the west had failed to grasp, he said, was the very deep hurt that had been growing steadily since the climate negotiations were effectively taken over by heads of state and were conducted outside the UN, the only forum in which poor countries feel they are equally represented.
 
The text is now likely to be withdrawn because of its reception by China, India and many other developing countries. It suggests that rich countries are desperate for world leaders to have a text to work from when they arrive next week.
 
Few numbers are included in the text, because these would be filled in later after negotiation by world leaders.
 
However, it does seek to hold global temperature rises to 2C, the safe limit according to scientists, and it mentions the sum of $10bn a year in aid to help poor countries cope with climate change, starting in 2012.
 
Last night the G77 reaction was seen by some developed world analysts as an exaggerated but fundamentally correct response to the way that the US, the UK and other rich countries have sought to negotiate.
 
Development NGOs were particularly scathing in their criticism.
 
Antonio Hill, climate policy adviser for Oxfam International, said: "This is only a draft, but it highlights the risk that when the big countries come together, the small ones get hurt."
 
Hill added: "It proposes a green fund to be run by a board, but the big risk is that it will run by the World Bank and the Global Environment Facility [a partnership of 10 agencies including the World Bank and the UN Environment Programme] and not the UN.
 
"That would be a step backwards, and it tries to put constraints on [emissions in] developing countries when none were negotiated in earlier UN climate talks."
 
A spokesman for Cafod, a development charity with close links to some of the poorest countries in the world, said: "This draft document reveals the backstage machinations of a biased host who, instead of acting as nonpartisan broker, is taking sides with the developed countries.
 
"The document should not even exist. There is a UN legal process which is the official negotiating text. The Danish text disrespects the solid, steady approach of the UN process."
 
Over the next days several new texts will emerge and out of them a likely contender to be carried by consensus of all the countries. Di-Aping said that the G77 remained committed to the talks.
 
"We will not walk out of the talks at this late hour, because we will not allow the failure of Copenhagen. But we will not sign an inequitable deal; we will not accept a deal that condemns 80% of the world population to further suffering and injustice."
 
Later this week, the rich countries can expect fresh assaults from the Africa group of countries, the least developed countries group, and the association of small island states. Each is liable to upset the best laid plans of developed world leaders who those groups say appear to place the need to reach an agreement above fully engaging with the poorest countries.
 
"We call ordinary people to put the utmost pressure on politicians to come to their senses," said Di-Aping.
 
 
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#7426 From: sharon kulz <s_kulz@...>
Date: Wed Dec 9, 2009 10:06 pm
Subject: Re: 2007 Fwd: CA legislative Water Rip Off: fwd Calif. farmers negotiate U.S. water deal
s_kulz
Send Email Send Email
 
    Water doesn't just "go away". There is the same amount on or around the planet as there was millions of years ago.
   
   Shortages of fresh water are due to hoarding, damming, private ownership, misdirection, artificial run-offs, wastage and lack of sequestration more so than to overpopulation.
  
   Even de-salinization would not  have to be seriously considered if sufficient run-off were captured befor reaching the seas.
   
   Interesting article on seawater aquaculture in Eritrea. One of the educational TV stations recently ran a documentary on this subject .

                                 <http://www.seawaterfoundation.org/newSite/swEritrea.htm>

Sharon


From: Dennis Brumm <brumm@...>
To: sfbayoil@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, December 8, 2009 9:59:14 PM
Subject: Re: [sfbayoil] 2007 Fwd: CA legislative Water Rip Off: fwd Calif. farmers negotiate U.S. water deal

At 09:55 PM 12/8/2009, you wrote:
>"Blue Gold", because of the general consensus that water will become
>more valuable than oil, in the near future.  It does seem rather
>strange that this has not been discussed with this issue.
>
>Personal conclusion; they are cutting a deal with dramatically under
>valued water being used as currency.

Why has water become so valuable, and why is it suddenly having the
potential of being scarce? Could it be the 7 billion people, the
amount of water needed to "sustain" such a population?



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#7427 From: Dennis Brumm <brumm@...>
Date: Wed Dec 9, 2009 10:46 pm
Subject: Re: 2007 Fwd: CA legislative Water Rip Off: fwd Calif. farmers negotiate U.S. water deal
dennisbrumm
Send Email Send Email
 
At 02:06 PM 12/9/2009, you wrote:
>
>
>     Water doesn't just "go away". There is the same amount on or
> around the planet as there was millions of years ago.
>
>    Shortages of fresh water are due to hoarding, damming, private
> ownership, misdirection, artificial run-offs, wastage and lack of
> sequestration more so than to overpopulation.

Perhaps, but are those things new? Is water shortage at the level
we're talking and worried about now new? I say probably not to #1, yes to #2.

And even if it weren't now caused by overpopulation, continuing to
provide water and food and no population control (or even concept of
what the biomass of humans is and does) eventually spells shortage.

Peak everything happens more quickly as that graph of humans
continues its upward rise exponentially.

#7428 From: Bryan Boot <bboot@...>
Date: Wed Dec 9, 2009 11:18 pm
Subject: Re: 2007 Fwd: CA legislative Water Rip Off: fwd Calif. farmers negotiate U.S. water deal
doublefly888
Send Email Send Email
 

On Dec 9, 2009, at 2:06 PM, sharon kulz wrote:



    Water doesn't just "go away". There is the same amount on or around the planet as there was millions of years ago. 
    
   Shortages of fresh water are due to hoarding, damming, private ownership, misdirection, artificial run-offs, wastage and lack of sequestration more so than to overpopulation.
   
   Even de-salinization would not  have to be seriously considered if sufficient run-off were captured befor reaching the seas.
    

One climate change trend is wet places get wetter and dry places (like California) get dryer.

Even in some places where the number of inches of rain is the same, it comes less frequently but in larger torrents - meaning less retained and more runoff loss.

-Bryan

#7429 From: sharon kulz <s_kulz@...>
Date: Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:59 am
Subject: Re: 2007 Fwd: CA legislative Water Rip Off: fwd Calif. farmers negotiate U.S. water deal
s_kulz
Send Email Send Email
 
    Why do many countries oppose Water as a Human Right?
                    <http://www.internationalwaterlaw.org/blog/?cat=8>

Because
   
   Ted Turner and Water Hoarding
                    <http://entrepreneurs.suite101.com/article.cfm/ted_turner_land_entrepreneur>

   T Boone Pickens -the Rockefeller of Water
                    <http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_25/b4089040017753.htm>
                    <http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/07/the--pickens-plan-and-pickens-water-grab-video-recap.php>

  Oil Companies owning Water Rights
                    <http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_11945056>

   Billionaire Politics and Water
                     <http://exiledonline.com/how-limousine-liberals-oligarch-farmers-and-even-sean-hannity-are-hijacking-our-water-supply/>

Investing in Water Stocks
                     <http://water-stocks.com/Water-Stocks/>

     Compared with these characters, the overpopulation issue seems the lesser of concerns. Easy enough for large corporations to edge out the "masses" by hoarding water or making the price prohibitive. Compare the water usage of oil shales operations, Nestles and Agro-farms with that of the averaged usage of world populations.

Sharon


From: Dennis Brumm <brumm@...>
To: sfbayoil@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, December 9, 2009 2:46:47 PM
Subject: Re: [sfbayoil] 2007 Fwd: CA legislative Water Rip Off: fwd Calif. farmers negotiate U.S. water deal

At 02:06 PM 12/9/2009, you wrote:
>
>
>    Water doesn't just "go away". There is the same amount on or
> around the planet as there was millions of years ago.
>
>    Shortages of fresh water are due to hoarding, damming, private
> ownership, misdirection, artificial run-offs, wastage and lack of
> sequestration more so than to overpopulation.

Perhaps, but are those things new? Is water shortage at the level
we're talking and worried about now new? I say probably not to #1, yes to #2.

And even if it weren't now caused by overpopulation, continuing to
provide water and food and no population control (or even concept of
what the biomass of humans is and does) eventually spells shortage.

Peak everything happens more quickly as that graph of humans
continues its upward rise exponentially.



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#7430 From: Dennis Brumm <brumm@...>
Date: Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:11 am
Subject: Re: 2007 Fwd: CA legislative Water Rip Off: fwd Calif. farmers negotiate U.S. water deal
dennisbrumm
Send Email Send Email
 
>      Compared with these characters, the overpopulation issue seems
> the lesser of concerns. Easy enough for large corporations to edge
> out the "masses" by hoarding water or making the price prohibitive.
> Compare the water usage of oil shales operations, Nestles and
> Agro-farms with that of the averaged usage of world populations.
>
>! Sharon

Makes no sense to me. Those traits ARE NOT NEW IN HUMANS.  If they'd
been able to gouge water before they would have. It is because
SOMETHING IS NEW. Is that more people, global warming, assorted issues?

Your way blames "Them." Mine makes all of us culpable (mind you, I
think those in power do more damage per capita than most of the rest
of us). I think this sort of analysis is a big difference between
optimists and realists.

#7431 From: Michael Poremba <michael_poremba@...>
Date: Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:12 am
Subject: December Spore - Peak Oil / New Energy
michael_poremba
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi all,
 
Next Wednesday December 16th Wes McCullough and I are speaking at an event in SOMA. The event begins around 7pm. Here are details:
I'll be presenting on peak oil, and Wes is talking about Transition.
 
Please come down and join us if you're available next Wednesday evening.
 
--Michael P.
 
We are excited to announce that this Spore will be Co-Sponsored by Transition SF, our local arm of the Transition Town movement.
7-7:30pm: Live music, mixer
7:30: Intro to Evolver & Opening Meditation
7:45- 9:15pm: Speakers (see below)
- short break -
9:30-10:15: World Cafe Interactive discussion on Energy Topics that arose in Presentations (learn more about World Cafe here)
10:30- 11: Close of formal event, mixer
11-11:30: Sound Concert on Vibrating Floor
Speakers include:
- Michael Poremba (Transition SF) on Peak Oil
- Wesley McCullough (Transition SF) on The Transition Town Movement
- Brian Shald (East Bay Free Skool) on Community Knowledge Sharing
- Kip Baldwin presenting Survival Kits
- Damon Knudson from Green Energy Network on Grass Roots Ethanol Production
- and more....
Live music by:
Roy Two Thousand (performing Live Electronics!)
ABOUT THE THEME
Will the end of the oil age mark the end of civilization as we know it? Will we descend into Mad Max mayhem as pumps run dry? Or can the threat of a post-Peak Oil dystopia inspire communities to institute new sustainable models of energy production, conservation, and sharing? A growing number of institutions, researchers, and DIY pioneers propose new ways to create and conserve power and transfer to using renewable energy in our lives. Innovations in technology have led to a flowering of wind farms, new fuel cells, rapid improvements in photovoltaiic systems, hydroelectric, and biomass energy solutions like Biochar. Visionaries like The Resonance Project’s Nassim Haramein work toward harnessing the energy of the vacuum, or the quantum field, to access infinite power.
For this Spore, we will discuss the future of energy, from radical innovations and renewable technologies to conservation through upgraded environmental design. When we know the situation we face and the options available to us, we can work together to prepare a soft landing for the fossil fuel power-down.
 

#7432 From: Jan Lundberg <jan@...>
Date: Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:21 am
Subject: Re: [gwcc] Climate Deal Likely to Bear Big Price Tag
jan@...
Send Email Send Email
 
This concern about future climate-mitigation costs is way off base.
I'm not referring to the familiar ideas that renewable energy and
energy efficiency pay though savings and job creation, or that carbon
reductions ultimately save money.   Or that there's monetary value in
saving forests that provide oxygen and sequester carbon.

Rather, several assumptions go into the typical analysis captured by
this NY Times story, such as that there will be the technical and
geological ability to maintain a semblance of the present economy way
into the future, and that there will be the financial wealth to even
attempt such an approach for replacing high-emissions infrastructure.
But most of all, the idea that buying our way or engineering our way
to a viable future is absurd when we just look at ecological trends.

To understand my view, one would have to roughly share my values about
simplicity and natural living, as well as my view on the
unavoidability of collapse.  I won't rehash now what I've written
about these things, including the brighter future promised when the
present system falters completely and is replaced by not another
system but by eventual bioregional diversity of human cultures.  The
end is really a beginning.  The reflowering could be swift.  Nice if
industrialism's destruction of the life support system could cease
sooner rather than later.

Cultural change through upheaval and termination might be the main
silver lining in the unlikelihood of poor nations not getting the
hoped-for global industrial aid to "modernize" (that passes for
climate-crisis solutions instead of immediate slashing of emissions).
There should be more justice regarding past and present fossil-fueled
materialism, but perhaps waiting for the check in the mail is bone-
headed and an insufficient strategy.  The "free market," global trade
and inflated funny-money aren't the future.

Looking at the future through the lens of the past, as the NY Times
and the banksters do, can result in distorted perceptions.  The
defenders of the status quo can only continue attitudes that result in
impossibilities, such as (1) money being an answer to a health crisis
brought on by technology and overpopulation, and (2)  population
growth itself as something that can keep happening based solely on
trends upward.

Jan
http://culturechange.org

On Dec 10, 2009, at 12:23 AM, Raging Grannie (Wanda B) wrote:

>
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/09/science/earth/09cost.html?_r=2&hp=&pagewanted=\
all
>
> Climate Deal Likely to Bear Big Price Tag
> By JOHN M. BRODER
> Published: December 8, 2009
>
> WASHINGTON  If negotiators reach an accord at the climate talks in
> Copenhagen it will entail profound shifts in energy production,
> dislocations in how and where people live, sweeping changes in
> agriculture and forestry and the creation of complex new markets in
<http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/science/topics/globalwarming/index.html?inli\
ne=nyt-classifier
> >global warming pollution credits.
>
>
<http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/12/07/science/20091207_CLIMATE_TIMELINE\
.html
> >
> Science and Politics of Climate Change
>
<http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/12/07/science/20091207_CLIMATE_TIMELINE\
.html
> >Interactive Feature
>
>
<http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/12/07/science/20091207_CLIMATE_TIMELINE\
.html
> >Science and Politics of Climate Change
>
> <http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2009/12/09/world/20091209-CLIMATE_index.html
> >
> Climate Conference, Day 2
>
> <http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2009/12/09/world/20091209-CLIMATE_index.html
> >Slide Show
>
> <http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2009/12/09/world/20091209-CLIMATE_index.html
> >Climate Conference, Day 2
>
>
> So what is all this going to cost?
>
> The short answer is trillions of dollars over the next few decades.
> It is a significant sum but a relatively small fraction of the
> world’s total economic output. In energy infrastructure alone, the
> transformational ambitions that delegates to the
<http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/u/united_nati\
ons/index.html?inline=nyt-org
> >United Nations
<http://topics.nytimes.com/topics/reference/timestopics/subjects/u/united_nation\
s_framework_convention_on_climate_change/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
> >climate change conference are expected to set in the coming days
> will cost more than $10 trillion in additional investment from 2010
> to 2030, according to a new estimate from the International Energy
> Agency.
>
> As scary as that number sounds, the agency said that the costs would
> ramp up relatively slowly and be largely offset by economic benefits
> in new jobs, improved lives, more secure energy supplies and a
> reduced danger of climate catastrophe. Most of the investment will
> come from private rather than public funds, the agency contends.
>
> “People often ask about the costs,” said Kevin Parker, the global
> head of
<http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/deutsche_bank_ag/index.ht\
ml?inline=nyt-org
> >Deutsche Bank Asset Management, who tracks climate policy for the
> bank. “But the figures people tend to cite don’t take into account
> conservation and efficiency measures that are easily available. And
> they don’t look at the cost of inaction, which is the extinction of
> the human race. Period.”
>
> Whatever global warming’s effects  and most scientific projections
> are less dire  there are also varying estimates of the economic
> costs of failing to act to address the problem soon, some of them
> very high.
>
> In Copenhagen, some of the most intense and difficult discussions
> for negotiators center on any potential agreement’s near-term
> financial arrangements. Some of the poorest and most vulnerable
> nations are calling for a gigantic transfer of wealth from the
> industrialized world to island nations and countries in Africa, Asia
> and Latin America that are most likely to feel the ravages of a
> changing climate.
>
> Many poor nations are insisting that wealthier nations make deeper
> cuts in their emissions and contribute more money to help the poorer
> countries, a split that widened in Copenhagen on Tuesday as
> competing documents of a potential agreement circulated.
>
> Over time, some of the hundreds of billions of dollars the poorer
> countries are demanding will begin to flow, as global carbon markets
> become established and governments in rich countries begin to open
> the spigot of public spending.
>
> But in the meantime, the industrialized countries have proposed a
> relatively modest fund of about $10 billion a year for each of the
> next three or four years to help poorer countries adapt. Even that
> effort remains the subject of conflict over which countries should
> contribute how much, what body should oversee the spending and how
> to determine which projects qualify for finance.
>
>
<http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/o/barack_obama/index\
.html?inline=nyt-per
> >President Obama’s spokesman said last week that the president
> supported a short-term fund to aid developing nations and that the
> United States would pay “its fair share.” In many multilateral
> efforts, the United States picks up a quarter to a third of the tab.
>
> “Providing this assistance,” the White House statement said, “is not
> only a humanitarian imperative  it’s an investment in our common
> security, as no climate change accord can succeed if it does not
> help all countries reduce their emissions.”
>
> The money would be used to help developing nations reduce emissions
> by switching to renewable energy sources like wind and solar and by
> compensating landowners for not cutting down or burning forests, a
> major source of carbon dioxide emissions. Other funds might be used
> to adjust to effects of a changing climate, like rising sea levels,
> by building flood walls or relocating settlements to higher ground.
>
> Mr. Obama will travel to Copenhagen on Dec. 18 to attend the final
> day of the meeting, a sign that the White House believes that a far-
> reaching accord, including deals on some of the sticky financial
> issues, is possible.
>
> “This is the question that is being posed in Copenhagen,” said
> Robert N. Stavins, director of the environmental economics program
> at
<http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/h/harvard_uni\
versity/index.html?inline=nyt-org
> >Harvard University. “How much money do the developed countries have
> to put on the table to bring developing countries into the
> conversation?”
>
> Mr. Stavins said that the bulk of the money would have to come from
> private investment because, he said, it was “inconceivable” that the
> governments of the wealthy countries would come up with adequate
> financing and also because private entities spent money much more
> efficiently.
>
> The climate and energy legislation passed by the House in June sets
> aside roughly $8 billion a year for assistance to developing
> countries by 2030, Mr. Stavins said. That figure, he suggested,
> represents the upper limit of public financial support from the
> United States.
>
> The perspective from the developing world is, not surprisingly,
> somewhat different.
>
> Álvaro Umańa Quesada, the leader of Costa Rica’s climate delegation,
> said that it was important to the developing world to have early
> resources and a predictable flow of long-term financing. He said
> that the $10 billion in so-called quick start financing that was now
> on the table was adequate but that such spending had to rise to
> roughly $80 billion and as much as $150 billion a year by 2020.
>
> “That is not very much compared to the size of the world economy or
> the financial crisis bailouts,” he said. “There are great needs for
> adaptation, where the small island nations are really at risk. Some
> of them are one severe weather event away from disappearing.”
>
> The
<http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/e/european_un\
ion/index.html?inline=nyt-org
> >European Union has endorsed a fund of that size; the United States
> remains noncommittal. The Obama administration has asked for $1.2
> billion in climate-related financing in the 2010 budget, far below
> the needs being discussed at Copenhagen. But administration
> officials said they would seek more money for international climate
> programs in future years.
>
> Perhaps the most detailed analysis of the financing needs of any
> climate change agreement comes from Project Catalyst, an initiative
> of the European Climate Foundation and ClimateWorks, a foundation-
> supported policy group based in San Francisco. The group’s work has
> helped shape the negotiations in Copenhagen.
>
> The group estimates that roughly $100 billion will be needed by 2020
> to finance climate-change programs in the developing world. About
> half could come from the growing global market in carbon emissions
> credits under a
<http://topics.nytimes.com/topics/reference/timestopics/subjects/g/greenhouse_ga\
s_emissions/cap_and_trade/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
> >cap-and-trade system, which would be worth an estimated $2 trillion
> a year by 2020.
>
> A cap-and-trade system is already operating in Europe and is under
> consideration by Congress. Such a system sets a ceiling on the
> carbon emissions of a given country or industry and allows trading
> of pollution permits within the cap. As the overall limit on
> emissions grows tighter, the price of pollution permits rises,
> creating a sizable market in carbon credits.
>
> Countries would grant some of the carbon market allowances directly
> to energy and environmental programs in the developing world, with
> other funds coming from a relatively small fee on each transaction.
>
> An additional $10 billion to $20 billion would come from taxes on
> fuels used in aviation and shipping. The rest, perhaps $25 billion
> to $35 billion, would be loans and grants from industrialized
> nations to poorer countries, split roughly three ways among the
> United States, the European Union and Canada, Japan and Australia.
>
> “The good news is that everybody now is supporting our proposal for
> financing,” said Dr. Umańa, the Costa Rican delegate. “The bad news
> is that it’s happening 15 years too late. Without real money on the
> table, this will be a disaster.”
>
>
>
> “If we do not do the impossible, we shall be faced with the
> unthinkable.”  social philosopher Murray Bookchin
>

#7433 From: scott munson <scott@...>
Date: Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:24 am
Subject: Is Obama Really Preparing For Civil War?
scott@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Is Obama Really Preparing For Civil War?
According to an obscure report in the European Union Times (EUTimes.net), "Russian Military Analysts are reporting to Prime Minister Putin that US President Barack Obama has issued an order to his Northern Command's (USNORTHCOM) top leader, US Air Force General Gene Renuart, to 'begin immediately' increasing his military forces to 1 million troops by January 30, 2010, in what these reports warn is an expected outbreak of civil war within the United States before the end of winter......... by Pastor Chuck Baldwin
http://www.newswithviews.com/baldwin/baldwin554.htm



Bank Holiday on Jan 15? The New World Order (NWO) Plan and Time-Line to Crash the Dollar, Consolidate Banks and Create a Third World War

The New World Order (NWO) Plan and Time-Line to Crash the Dollar, Consolidate Banks and Create a Third World War

Alertnet Commentary:
This is the NWO plan for the immediate future:

“Within two years you will not recognize America. We have altered our time-line because of the 2.5 trillion dollar gift from the Bush administration in its final months.”

“Within two years you will be so poor you will not be able to rebel.”

“Inflation will escalate over a period of two years. After two years the dollar will have collapsed and you will be so poor you cannot afford to go to tea parties.”

“Paper money will be worthless. Gold and silver is all you can rely on.”

“After two years nearly everyone will be working for the government.”

The banking system will be “narrowed down to nine major banks left.”

Nearing death, these are the words of an elite retired CEO of a major oil company as spoken in a confession to Lindsay Williams in mid-October of 2009. Lindsay was the chaplain to the consortium of oil companies who built the Alaska pipeline. He lived with the oil company executives for three years at Prudhoe Bay, Alaska. The CEO continues:

“For two years oil will fluctuate around current prices. If it tries to spike up we will drive it down.”

“War is planned after two years. It will start in the mid-east and spread throughout the world.”

“Gasoline will then go to six, eight and ten dollars overnight.”

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheAlexJonesChannel#p/u/30/xk7FuBFBd9Q

There you have it from the top echelon. Since October, events have confirmed the unfolding of the plan. Consider the following blog comment which is unconfirmed but indicative of the underlying reality. Note the Greek handle. Leonidas who as you may recall, stood at the pass of Thermopylae with his band of Spartans and famously replied to the Persians when requested to lay down his arms and receive sanctuary, “MOLON LABE!” (Come and take them.)

LEONIDAS; said…

For what it’s worth, Friday we received the following forwarded email from a friend in Sweden (coincidence?):

[11/20/09 2:07:07 AM] Kerry Cassidy: “I do not normally pass on rumors or hear-say, but a very good personal friend’s uncle is a Deputy Economic Advisor to Obama as well as a Professior at a prestigious Eastern School. He was called into a private meeting last week with the President. They were told, I quote, the Following: “Between now and Jan 1st 70 more big banks will fail and 70% of Retail Companies will be Bankrupt. The President will allow them to make as much as they can for the Christmas Holidays then Jan 15 there will be a Bank Holiday and their new currency will be issued with a devaluation of 6 to 10 to 1. “I believe this is why they are trying to keep the market and dollar up now with their lies on all the News outlets. Set up the people to steal every last penny they can get. Martial Law cannot be too far behind. Get your money out of banks and into physical Gold and silver. I recommend 60% gold 40% silver, food, foundation seed, gun ammo generators… etc. If you cannot eat, drink it, wear it, live in it, raise food on it, do not invest in it. If you have stocks, bonds 401K Ira, take the penalty and put it in what I just said.” D.R.
We tried to check it out on snopes but no luck.
MOLON LABE!
November 24, 2009 9:44 PM

The banking system is insolvent. This we know. Our local bank is on the FDIC Watch List of over 500 banks that have received official warnings to boost their balance sheets or risk closure or takeover. Consider this communique from Bob Chapman, one of the very few financial advisors I trust. Bob was in Army intelligence in the early years of the cold war. He had a long career on Wall Street as a gold dealer. He is a legendary figure along with G. Edward Griffin for his tireless efforts to expose the NWO.

Bob has come out of retirement to publish the “International Forecaster”. His predictions have been uncannily accurate. He has access to inside sources developed over a lifetime and is one of the most sought-after commentators by the mainstream and alternative media. Do not take his words lightly. In a telephone communication from outside the U.S. on 11/26/09, he said that over 2000 banks in the U.S. will fail in 2010. In the autumn of 2010, the FDIC will fold and accounts will no longer be insured. There will be a Bank Holiday. There will be a devaluation. Listen to his words here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/AfterAmericaNZ#p/u/13/rn94OzLerVo

The NWO want to extend the dollar collapse over a two year period to keep the American public asleep until it is too late for them to rise up. However, events may spin out of their control and the engineered collapse could occur sooner as indicated by Chapman. The implications and consequences of a dollar devaluation and a dollar collapse may seem abstract. I assure you that it could be The End of the World as We Knew It event and the reason for the pending NORTHCOM mobilization previously briefed.

Please see this UK Telegraph article on the devaluation currently underway in North Korea: It is quite instructive.

http://current.com/1fe0q4c



www.labvirus.com

www.soundclick.com/kingofswords




#7434 From: Scott Munson <scott@...>
Date: Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:43 pm
Subject: China Brings Up the Elephant. . . Population
scott@...
Send Email Send Email
 
From: ruxpert <homepulse@...>
Date: Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 11:35 AM
Subject: [cia-drugs] Fw: China Brings Up the Elephant. . .
To: cia-drugs@yahoogroups.com
From: Edward Britton
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009
Subject: China Brings Up the Elephant. . .

. . .As in that GREAT, BIG-ASS pachyderm crouching dead-center of the
enviroligion 'Climate Change.'  Everybody KNOWS what I'm talking about,
but thus far China appears to have been THE national entity appointed
the task of spilling the official beans. China has 'fessed up' to what
few had the courage to admit heretofore: 'global warming,' and/or pretty
much everything else relating to how we interact with each other and our
environs, is about population control.  Yep, that's right.  Good old
fashioned herd management in that great Hitlerian tradition.


FINALLY, someone dares bring the issues UNDERLYING a New World, dystopic
Order (under a control freak elite quite possibly/literally from hell)
to the forefront.  FINALLY, someone dares to address the REAL, grisly
business behind ceaseless bouts of hand-wringing on the part of
(putatively) 'well-meaning' leftists the world over.  NOW, we can get
down to the numbers; who lives, who dies, who's allowed to be born,
who's not, who's allowed to eat, AND in what amounts, who's allowed to
have health 'care' . . . and OH, YES, who gets to decide for the rest of
us Negroes that have the unmitigated GALL to emit CO^2 on da
gover-business plantation.


Lest I forget, though, honorable mention is due our quaint neighbors to
the north. Seems a smattering of them have let their testicles descend
on the subject as well.
http://www.financialpost.com/story.html?id=2314438

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Source: http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2009-12/10/content_9151129.htm

Population control called key to deal
By Li Xing (China Daily)
Updated: 2009-12-10 07:37
Comments(81) PrintMail
  

COPENHAGEN: Population and climate change are intertwined but the
population issue has remained a blind spot when countries discuss ways
to mitigate climate change and slow down global warming, according to
Zhao Baige, vice-minister of National Population and Family Planning
Commission of China (NPFPC) .

"Dealing with climate change is not simply an issue of CO2 emission
reduction but a comprehensive challenge involving political, economic,
social, cultural and ecological issues, and the population concern fits
right into the picture," said Zhao, who is a member of the Chinese
government delegation.

Many studies link population growth with emissions and the effect of
climate change.

"Calculations of the contribution of population growth to emissions
growth globally produce a consistent finding that most of past
population growth has been responsible for between 40 per cent and 60
percent of emissions growth," so stated by the 2009 State of World
Population, released earlier by the UN Population Fund.

Although China's family planning policy has received criticism over the
past three decades, Zhao said that China's population program has made a
great historic contribution to the well-being of society.

As a result of the family planning policy, China has seen 400 million
fewer births, which has resulted in 18 million fewer tons of CO2
emissions a year, Zhao said.

The UN report projected that if the global population would remain 8
billion by the year 2050 instead of a little more than 9 billion
according to medium-growth scenario, "it might result in 1 billion to 2
billion fewer tons of carbon emissions".

Meanwhile, she said studies have also shown that family planning
programs are more efficient in helping cut emissions, citing research by
Thomas Wire of London School of Economics that states: "Each $7 spent on
basic family planning would reduce CO2 emissions by more than one ton"
whereas it would cost $13 for reduced deforestation, $24 to use wind
technology, $51 for solar power, $93 for introducing hybrid cars and
$131 electric vehicles.

She admitted that China's population program is not without
consequences, as the country is entering the aging society fast and
facing the problem of gender imbalance.

"I'm not saying that what we have done is 100 percent right, but I'm
sure we are going in the right direction and now 1.3 billion people have
benefited," she said.

She said some 85 percent of the Chinese women in reproductive age use
contraceptives, the highest rate in the world. This has been achieved
largely through education and improvement of people's lives, she said.

This holistic approach that integrates policy on population and
development, a strategy promoting sustainable development of population,
resources and environment should serve as a model for integrating
population programs into the framework of climate change adaptation, she
said.

--

Complete archives at http://www.sitbot.net/

Please let us stay on topic and be civil.

OM



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#7435 From: Mark Robinowitz <mark@...>
Date: Fri Dec 11, 2009 6:20 am
Subject: Re: Is Obama Really Preparing For Civil War?
mark@...
Send Email Send Email
 
I would be very surprised if these ultra right wing people make a retraction if
their rumor mongering with precise dates for events doesn't quite turn out to be
correct.

All good disinformation has small kernels of truth in it.



On Dec 10, 2009, at 8:24 PM Dec 10, scott munson wrote:

>
> Is Obama Really Preparing For Civil War?
> According to an obscure report in the European Union Times (EUTimes.net),
"Russian Military Analysts are reporting to Prime Minister Putin that US
President Barack Obama has issued an order to his Northern Command's
(USNORTHCOM) top leader, US Air Force General Gene Renuart, to 'begin
immediately' increasing his military forces to 1 million troops by January 30,
2010, in what these reports warn is an expected outbreak of civil war within the
United States before the end of winter......... by Pastor Chuck Baldwin
> http://www.newswithviews.com/baldwin/baldwin554.htm
>
>
>
> Bank Holiday on Jan 15? The New World Order (NWO) Plan and Time-Line to Crash
the Dollar, Consolidate Banks and Create a Third World War

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