"Imperial ton 2200 pounds
short ton or US ton is 2000 pounds

The US dropped 200 pounds outta the ton in 1893 from
memory.Possibly
for financial reasons.


     If it was 2,200 pounds then it was (1) metric ton
then. 1 metric ton is 1,000 Kg and 1 Kg is 2.2 pounds
so therefore it was a metric ton."

	 Well, NOT exactly.  1 kilogram is equal to approximately 2.204623
pounds so a metric ton is equal to about 2204.623 pounds.  [Isn't the
metric system awkward?]

Ed

	 By the way, if you work in your shop you may have noticed that scales
laid out with binary subunits (1/2, 1/4, 1/8, etc.) are frequently much
more convenient than those laid out in decimal units.  Suppose you want
to find the middle of a board, for instance.  Think about it.

"When I took over a ranch twenty years ago I was
surprised to find in the barn a long strip of cloth
tape  marked in "hands" (to find the height of a horse).
With a little weight at its lower end, such a cloth strip
could be used to determine remaining fuel in gastanks.
Then gasolene could be sold by the hand. "Gallon"
measures could be reserved for swimming pools and
wine jugs.
                          The Professor in Dayton."

	 I'll bet that everyone associated with that arrangement was perfectly
happy and led a successful life without knowing anything about the
metric or SI system.

Ed

"  What...????  Pyramid inch..???  Thats a new one on
me....what is that all about?"

	 Phoney baloney, of course.  For a little interesting pyramidology look
up "Piazzi Smith" or "Piazzi Smyth" on the internet.  Have to be careful
what I say because some correspondents here are very serious about the
subject.

Ed

"Here's a note on the "Pyramid Inch." Taken from Peter Tompkins,
"Secrets
of the Great Pyramid, p 72.
Jim Farrer"

	 Never did find that note among all of the levels of quotes.  I suggest
a greater use of trimming all the useless parts of quotes in order to
keep notes short and easy to read.

Ed

"His goal was to design a craft that would fly through the air like a
cannon ball,
independent of air currents. I think he accomplished this will a
combination of vacuum and thrust. Interestingly much effort has gone
into discrediting the Tesla turbine as an engine."

	 Interesting.  When did it fly?  What were the results of his flight
tests?  How well did the design work out?

"Tesla turbine as an engine. Many notable scientist have failed in their
attempts to build one, and a major tractor
manufacturer decided against using them. However not once does anyone
claim that the principal of the turbine is unsound."

	 I doubt that anyone who tried has failed to build one that worked.  As
for "discrediting the thing as an engine", who would bother and why? The
question is strictly as to its efficiency compared to a more
conventional reaction turbine.  The same principle has been applied to
very successful pumps for stuff like sewage, mud, etc.  "Molecular"
vacuum pumps use the same principle and, I believe, predate Tesla's
turbine patents by several years.  Have a history of vacuum techniques
that has something on the subject.  Was the "major tractor manufacturer"
Allis Chalmers by any chance?

Ed

--- Ed Phillips <evp@...> wrote:

       Well, NOT exactly.  1 kilogram is equal to
approximately 2.204623
pounds so a metric ton is equal to about 2204.623
pounds.  [Isn't the
metric system awkward?]

   No it is metic system is correct...it is the pound
and inch and stones, yards, rods, sheckles, and all
that crap that is awkward. I mean really...pints
quarts, 16 oz = 1 pound...come on not 10 not 50 but a
odd ball 16.  But then the how can you compair it even
in the same breath to metric. 32f water goes to
ice.... Any normal person would think and say....gee
this looks like a good place to call 0 (zero).

  And water boiling 100c....and not this 212f crap.
But then how can you show someone the perfection in
all this...someone that can not see the forest from
the trees....



Ed

       By the way, if you work in your shop you may
have noticed that scales
laid out with binary subunits (1/2, 1/4, 1/8, etc.)
are frequently much
more convenient than those laid out in decimal units.
Suppose you want
to find the middle of a board, for instance.  Think
about it.

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--- Ed Phillips <evp@...> wrote:
         There's a wide-spread myth
that the loss of a couple of JPL Mars spacecraft was
due to the
inferiority of the English system of units compared to
the metric.  Pure
B.S.

   How does one compair pure perfection of metric to
the crude English system...you can not even come
close.  A yard..3 feet...not 2 or 4 or 5 but a odd
ball "3" !!  The foot...not 10 inches but again a odd
ball 12. The inch 1/4 inch..OK...1/2 inch...OK...then
wine took over for the rest 1/8?? not 1/10's but odd
ball 8? then 16, 32 and 64's. And then comes the mile
what is that 5,600 something..something feet??? not
5,000 feet even not 10,000 but some odd ball again.
1 Km = 1,000 m   When you have good hard look at the
whole english system you have wonder what happened
there.  What was it a pile of engineer types go
together at the local pub and half cut from drinking
to much thought this all up...or what? Or did same
group get together and say....lets see how we can
screw everyone on and came up with this nightmare.
Gee I love the metric system...

    I could go on...but what is the point...



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Ed Phillips wrote:

> An old engineer's opinion:   <snipped>
>
>      "Some of it has
> survived and some of it (the decimal units for time, for example) was
> silly and didn't last long.Some of it has
> survived and some of it (the decimal units for time, for example) was
> silly and didn't last long."


When I was hired by IBM, the lunch bell rang for my group at 12:24 P.M.
You had 42 minutes
for lunch.  This building was the factory for building the SAGE
computer.  Most occupants were
members of the production line, so timing was critical.

EVERYTHING  Including time cards, what a B&*#! to compute, ran on tenths
of an hour.
This was June, 1955.  Still tenths of an hour on timecards when I
retired,  Feb 1987.
Jim Farrer
Olde habbits (good OR bad) are difficult to change.

The "note" was an attachment.  here it is.

""" tians had a knowledge of the value of tt is the Rhind Papyrus, dated
about 1700 B.C., and therefore much later than the Pyramid. Found in the
wrappings of a mummy in 1855 by a young Scottish archeoiogist, Henry
Alexander Rhind, the rare papyrus is now in the British Museum. It gives
a very rough value for tt of 3.16.

Searching for a reason for such a tt proportion in the Pyramid, Taylor
concluded that the perimeter might have been intended to represent the
circumference of the earth at the equator while the height represented
the distance from the earth's center to the pole.

Perhaps Jomard had been right: perhaps the ancient designers had
measured the length of a geographical degree, multiplied it by 360° for
the circumference of the globe, and by the 77 relation had deduced the
polar radius of the earth, immortalizing their knowledge by making the
circum­ference to scale with the perimeter and the radius to scale with
the height of the Pyramid.

Taylor underlined his thesis: "It was to make a record of the measure of
the Earth that it was built." He then elaborated: "They knew the Earth
was a sphere; and by observing the motion of the heavenly bodies over
the earth's surface, had ascertained its circumference, and were
desirous of leaving behind them a record of the circumfer­ence as
correct and imperishable as it was possible for them to construct."



> >>> Begin here.  [(Taken from Secrets of the Great Pyramid, p 72, by
Peter Tompkins)]



But it was evident to Taylor that the builders of the Pyramid could not
have used for their calculations such a unit as the British foot, which
fitted neither the height nor the base exactly; he therefore looked for
a unit that would retain the tt proportion and fit the Pyramid in whole
numbers.

When he came to 366:116.5 he was struck by the similarity of 366 to the
number of days in the year and wondered if the Egyptians might have
intentionally divided the perim­eter of the Pyramid into units of the
solar year.

He then noticed that if he converted the perimeter into inches, it came
to very nearly 100 times 366. Also he was surprised to


******** jsf

see that if he divided the base by 25 inches, he obtained the same 366
result. Could the ancient Egyptians have used a unit so close to the
British inch? And a cubit of 25 such inches?

By coincidence, Sir John Herschel, one of Britain's most eminent
astronomers at the beginning of the nineteenth century, had just
postulated a unit half a human hair's breadth longer than a British inch
as the only sensible earth-commensurable unit, or unit based on the
actual size of the earth."""

72

Ed Phillips wrote:

> "Here's a note on the "Pyramid Inch." Taken from Peter Tompkins,
> "Secrets
> of the Great Pyramid, p 72.
> Jim Farrer"
>
>       Never did find that note among all of the levels of quotes.  I
> suggest
> a greater use of trimming all the useless parts of quotes in order to
> keep notes short and easy to read.
>
> Ed
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The "note" was an attachment.  here it is.

""" tians had a knowledge of the value of tt is the Rhind Papyrus, dated
about 1700 B.C., and therefore much later than the Pyramid. Found in the
wrappings of a mummy in 1855 by a young Scottish archeoiogist, Henry
Alexander Rhind, the rare papyrus is now in the British Museum. It gives
a very rough value for tt of 3.16.

Searching for a reason for such a tt proportion in the Pyramid, Taylor
concluded that the perimeter might have been intended to represent the
circumference of the earth at the equator while the height represented
the distance from the earth's center to the pole.

Perhaps Jomard had been right: perhaps the ancient designers had
measured the length of a geographical degree, multiplied it by 360° for
the circumference of the globe, and by the 77 relation had deduced the
polar radius of the earth, immortalizing their knowledge by making the
circum­ference to scale with the perimeter and the radius to scale with
the height of the Pyramid.

Taylor underlined his thesis: "It was to make a record of the measure of
the Earth that it was built." He then elaborated: "They knew the Earth
was a sphere; and by observing the motion of the heavenly bodies over
the earth's surface, had ascertained its circumference, and were
desirous of leaving behind them a record of the circumfer­ence as
correct and imperishable as it was possible for them to construct."

 

> >>> Begin here.  [(Taken from Secrets of the Great Pyramid, p 72, by
Peter Tompkins)]

 

But it was evident to Taylor that the builders of the Pyramid could not
have used for their calculations such a unit as the British foot, which
fitted neither the height nor the base exactly; he therefore looked for
a unit that would retain the tt proportion and fit the Pyramid in whole
numbers.

When he came to 366:116.5 he was struck by the similarity of 366 to the
number of days in the year and wondered if the Egyptians might have
intentionally divided the perim­eter of the Pyramid into units of the
solar year.

He then noticed that if he converted the perimeter into inches, it came
to very nearly 100 times 366. Also he was surprised to

                                                                             
******** jsf

see that if he divided the base by 25 inches, he obtained the same 366
result. Could the ancient Egyptians have used a unit so close to the
British inch? And a cubit of 25 such inches?

By coincidence, Sir John Herschel, one of Britain's most eminent
astronomers at the beginning of the nineteenth century, had just
postulated a unit half a human hair's breadth longer than a British inch
as the only sensible earth-commensurable unit, or unit based on the
actual size of the earth."""

72

Ed Phillips wrote:

> "Here's a note on the "Pyramid Inch." Taken from Peter Tompkins,
> "Secrets
> of the Great Pyramid, p 72.
> Jim Farrer"
>
>       Never did find that note among all of the levels of quotes.  I
> suggest
> a greater use of trimming all the useless parts of quotes in order to
> keep notes short and easy to read.
>
> Ed

"Each day is a new life. Seize it. Live it."
             --David Guy Powers--

Yes, but don't forget the really silly Angstrom Unit, equal to 1 ten
billionth of a meter.
BTW, the mile is 5280 feet, unless you were referring to our nautical
mile, which would be
6020 feet.  Yup .  Divided by 3, that's 2006  and 2/3  yards.  I
donwanna  try to figger
it in rods.

:)^   Jim Farrer

Island Roamer wrote:

> --- Ed Phillips <evp@...> wrote:
>         There's a wide-spread myth
> that the loss of a couple of JPL Mars spacecraft was
> due to the
> inferiority of the English system of units compared to
> the metric.  Pure
> B.S.
>
>   How does one compair pure perfection of metric to
> the crude English system...you can not even come
> close.  A yard..3 feet...not 2 or 4 or 5 but a odd
> ball "3" !!  The foot...not 10 inches but again a odd
> ball 12. The inch 1/4 inch..OK...1/2 inch...OK...then
> wine took over for the rest 1/8?? not 1/10's but odd
> ball 8? then 16, 32 and 64's. And then comes the mile
> what is that 5,600 something..something feet??? not
> 5,000 feet even not 10,000 but some odd ball again.
> 1 Km = 1,000 m   When you have good hard look at the
> whole english system you have wonder what happened
> there.  What was it a pile of engineer types go
> together at the local pub and half cut from drinking
> to much thought this all up...or what? Or did same
> group get together and say....lets see how we can
> screw everyone on and came up with this nightmare.
> Gee I love the metric system...
>
>    I could go on...but what is the point...
>
>
>
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"EVERYTHING  Including time cards, what a B&*#! to compute, ran on
tenths
of an hour.
This was June, 1955.  Still tenths of an hour on timecards when I
retired,  Feb 1987.
Jim Farrer
Olde habbits (good OR bad) are difficult to change."

	 Northrop Grumman, or at least the group I work for, still does the same
except that our "time cards" are on line.  Everything is quantized to
0.100  hour.  Even the nominal lunch hour is 0.700 hour!

Ed

"All quite interesting speculation Jim... and perhaps we will never know
for certain whether any of them were correct in their deductive logic,
using
mathematics as a tool. Someone once said, if one play juggles the math
and statistics long enough, one can prove anything true or false. None
the
less... quite interesting relationships, in the great pyramids
dimensions.
HAVE A HAPPY THANKSGIVING HOLIDAY EVERYONE!!!

JPM"

	 That all is something I can agree with wholeheartedly!!!

Ed

Yes, but don't forget the really silly Angstrom Unit, equal to 1 ten
billionth of a meter.
BTW, the mile is 5280 feet, unless you were referring to our nautical
mile, which would be
6020 feet.  Yup .  Divided by 3, that's 2006  and 2/3  yards.  I
donwanna  try to figger
it in rods.

:)^   Jim Farrer"

	 There are a number of different "nautical miles" in more or less common
use but that isn't one I can find.  Nominally the length of 1 minute of
arc at the equator.  (Tied to the size of the earth, what could be more
natural?)    Most common value now in use is exactly 1852 meters (how's
that for mixing units?), or about 6076.1 feet.  Look up "admiralty mile"
and "geographical mile" for some other values.

Ed

Aeronet (Chemtrails)
http://memes.org/modules.php?
op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=3776&mode

`Mystery Cloud' Appears Over Eastern U.S. And Canada
http://memes.org/modules.php?
op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=3775&mode

Noon turns to night as cloud blacks out sun (China)
http://memes.org/modules.php?
op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=3774&mode

Chemtrails And Radio Propagation - Some Observations
http://memes.org/modules.php?
op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=3773&mode

*

On Nov 24, 2004, at 11:25 AM, Ed Phillips wrote:

> "His goal was to design a craft that would fly through the air like a
>  cannon ball,
>  independent of air currents. I think he accomplished this will a
>  combination of vacuum and thrust. Interestingly much effort has gone
>  into discrediting the Tesla turbine as an engine."
>
>        Interesting.  When did it fly?  What were the results of his
> flight
>  tests?  How well did the design work out?


      Oct 10, 1925 a meeting in Washington DC was arranged to go over the
proposal of remote controlled and remotely powered cars and planes in a
plan which submitted complete drawings and schematics.  According to
the book (Wizard) Tesla's reactive jet was the prototype for the flying
wing and Harrier jet.  In 1987 New York times posted that gliders had
been developed that were powered by microwaves from the ground. Tesla's
suggestion was to use a magnifying transmitter as a power station. Too
bad the only one ever made was bulldozed and filled in to prevent any
possible duplication. Although these were not produced by Tesla he did
construct hovercraft and lighter than air craft that were, according to
the book, the basis for the Harrier jet.

>  "Tesla turbine as an engine. Many notable scientist have failed in
> their
>  attempts to build one, and a major tractor
>  manufacturer decided against using them. However not once does anyone
>  claim that the principal of the turbine is unsound."
>
>        I doubt that anyone who tried has failed to build one that
> worked.  As
>  for "discrediting the thing as an engine", who would bother and why?
> The
>  question is strictly as to its efficiency compared to a more
>  conventional reaction turbine.  The same principle has been applied to
>  very successful pumps for stuff like sewage, mud, etc.  "Molecular"
>  vacuum pumps use the same principle and, I believe, predate Tesla's
>  turbine patents by several years.

       You might amend your history book with a quote from the inventions
book.
At one point in this book Tesla suggests that one day molecular pumps
will be the pump that is used for most purposes, although he personally
does not have time to examine them.
Several attempts have been made, one by a professor Rice , where the
disks were scratched to increase friction. This practice however
disrupts adhesion which is one of the principle reasons the turbine
works.  Allis Chalmers was another "failure" for similar reasons.
>   Have a history of vacuum techniques
>  that has something on the subject.  Was the "major tractor
> manufacturer"
>  Allis Chalmers by any chance?
>
>  Ed


      Yes Allis Chalmers. If you read the report, they suggest the
turbine would only work properly if they were of large diameter and had
more than one turbine rotor section in a series. This was going to be
an engineering nightmare. Mostly the engineers were" fed up" with
trying to work for Tesla decided to can the project.  Tesla had only
one statement on the matter: They
would not build the turbines to my specifications.  (Not an exact quote)

     The efficiency of a two rotor turbine has never been evaluated.
There is a good possibility that the two turbine rotor will be twice as
efficient as the single rotor. There is a simple reason for this, the
second rotor is also a motor but runs on vacuum. No energy is required
to produce the vacuum, only a temperature / pressure difference. Energy
is required to produce steam to run one turbine, but that according to
Tesla, the turbines could be ran off steam produced at ambient
temperature.  In my opinion this is a "new" method to absorb solar
heat.
Ground temperature or common tap water is of course used to cool the
steam
This I think was proven when he powered Wardencliff with "turbines
which ran off tanks of water heated to ambient temperatures."  Even if
the turbine were only 10% efficient if it could be ran off ambient
temperatures then it would still be a greater value.
       A more useful comparison of the Tesla turbine to a conventional
turbine is efficiency/cost.  The Tesla turbine is of a relatively
inexpensive construction. The fuel costs for the Tesla turbine are
reduced to near zero as at a low pressure water will boil at any
temperature.   In terms of efficiency over costs the Tesla turbine is a
clear winner.
      If one looks closely at the bottom line one understands what is
what. If everyone could produce cheap electricity from solar heat, the
major power producers would go the way of the dinosaur. Fossil fuels
would not be required so oil and gas companies would be out of
business.  Our public officials rely on contributions from these
industries to get elected. That is why tobacco, which kills more people
than all illegal drugs combined,  is still legal. That is also why it
is not legal to produce alcohol, or grow non narcotic hemp, both of
which are renewable fuel sources.  Is this a conspiracy? No, just basic
human greed.   It is said in politics that "One hand washes the other".
   That is the real reason clean cars do not exist, and cheap power is
not available.
Paul
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Yes, Ed. Everyone except the horses. They didn't
have any hands to begin with.      Hal.

  -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Ed Phillips <evp@...>
>
> "When I took over a ranch twenty years ago I was
> surprised to find in the barn a long strip of cloth
> tape  marked in "hands" (to find the height of a horse).
> With a little weight at its lower end, such a cloth strip
> could be used to determine remaining fuel in gastanks.
> Then gasolene could be sold by the hand. "Gallon"
> measures could be reserved for swimming pools and
> wine jugs.
>                          The Professor in Dayton."
>
>  I'll bet that everyone associated with that arrangement was perfectly
> happy and led a successful life without knowing anything about the
> metric or SI system.
>
> Ed
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Geesh, Ed.  With the experience of the two of us, it begins to look like
tenths of an
hour did not really  die!

Jim

I DO  HOPE that EVERYONE ate way too much of everything.  I DID.


Ed Phillips wrote:

> "EVERYTHING  Including time cards, what a B&*#! to compute, ran on
> tenths
> of an hour.
> This was June, 1955.  Still tenths of an hour on timecards when I
> retired,  Feb 1987.
> Jim Farrer
> Olde habbits (good OR bad) are difficult to change."
>
>       Northrop Grumman, or at least the group I work for, still does
> the same
> except that our "time cards" are on line.  Everything is quantized to
> 0.100  hour.  Even the nominal lunch hour is 0.700 hour!
>
> Ed
>
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>

The attached diagram illustrates Tesla's method of utilizing ambient
air temperatures to boil low pressure water to produce steam. This
method relies on a source of cold temperatures and low air pressure to
condense and boil water at lower than normal temperatures. I have added
the prospect of using solar heated water to the hot side so pressure
inside the system can be increased while still achieving the same
results. The same effect could be achieved at ambient temperatures, but
the lower

pressure on the system would be more difficult to maintain.

Will we ever learn that attachments mean that the person is only talking to
themselves.  The List does NOT pass them on.
     So if you can't add that a cool lake water, or hole in the ground, or
tower to heaven is required to get the cool side, we will never know
whereof it is that one doesn't write about. If it is not worth writing
about all the way, is it worth teasing?  Popular Science is more explicit.
Will
At 02:59 AM 11/27/04, you wrote:
>    Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 02:36:13 -0600
>Subject: Solar Tesla Turbine
>
>
>The attached diagram illustrates Tesla's method of utilizing ambient
>air temperatures to boil low pressure water to produce steam. This ...

1.  IMMEDIATE Problem
The file attached by Paul Eitson had a nearly fatal flaw.  The file was
named
"jpg ambient temperature"  There is no period, thus no extension.
[File naming on the hard drive is called 8.3      meaning, 1 thru 8
characters for the file name,
and 3 characters for the file extension.]   The operating system
provides us with the Long
File Name capability, used here.

The lack of an extension means that when one double clicks on the file
name, the operating
system does no t know how to display the file, and consults its Great
Big Table.  This
table consists of extension, followed by the name of the program to
display it.

In this case, no program can be found, and the process fails.

=====>>> The file SHOULD have been named    "Ambient temperature.jpg"

2.  Temporary workaround
Change the attachment file name to "Ambient temperature.jpg"  I did
this, and the file was displayed.

3.  Further trouble
When Yahoo groups delivers an email to each member, the attachments are
sent with it.  No
immediate problem here.

BUT: When one logs onto the usa-Tesla list and consults the message
archive, one finds some
15,000 emails.  BUT their attachments are MISSING FOREVER.

SOLUTION:  Choose whether the email you are submitting to usa-Tesla is
short term life,
or long term life.  If short term, and unimportant. Continue to use
attachments.
If long term life is desired, include all your data within the email
data section.

I don't like this restriction.
I, like all others, adhere to it.

Jim Farrer



herzog@... wrote:

> Will we ever learn that attachments mean that the person is only
> talking to
> themselves.  The List does NOT pass them on.
>     So if you can't add that a cool lake water, or hole in the ground, or
> tower to heaven is required to get the cool side, we will never know
> whereof it is that one doesn't write about. If it is not worth writing
> about all the way, is it worth teasing?  Popular Science is more explicit.
> Will
> At 02:59 AM 11/27/04, you wrote:
> >    Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 02:36:13 -0600
> >Subject: Solar Tesla Turbine
> >
> >
> >The attached diagram illustrates Tesla's method of utilizing ambient
> >air temperatures to boil low pressure water to produce steam. This ...
>
>
>
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sorry Will,
         When I open my mail the attachment appears as part of the email.
   If you are interested in the drawing, I can email to you directly.  I
can also do gif, photoshop, pict or open with explorer.
To briefly describe the drawing:   It is a Tesla turbine located
between two tanks of water.  Each tank can be either heated or cooled
to produce steam or a condensation chamber.  Steam is produced in the
hot side, and condensed in the cold side. Since the turbine can turn
either direction, the steam performs work each time it is transferred
from on tank to the other, as it passes through the turbine each time.
This process can be accomplished at ambient temperatures due to the
partial vacuum maintained in the closed system. If a more rapid
transferr of steam is desired,or higher pressure is maintined,  then
solar heat may be added to the hot side.  If more rapid condensation is
required, ammonia in a copper coil can be used to transfer heat to a
storage tank.  The heat is stored for times when ambient temperature
drops to levels too low to evaporate water at current system pressure.
   It takes about 4 4x8' solar collectors to produce solar steam at STP.
At 20 hg that number is cut in half or by 3/4.
Paul
On Nov 27, 2004, at 9:43 PM, herzog@... wrote:

> Will we ever learn that attachments mean that the person is only
> talking to
>  themselves.  The List does NOT pass them on.
>      So if you can't add that a cool lake water, or hole in the
> ground, or
>  tower to heaven is required to get the cool side, we will never know
>  whereof it is that one doesn't write about. If it is not worth writing
>  about all the way, is it worth teasing?  Popular Science is more
> explicit.
>  Will
>  At 02:59 AM 11/27/04, you wrote:
>  >    Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 02:36:13 -0600
>  >Subject: Solar Tesla Turbine
>  >
>  >
>  >The attached diagram illustrates Tesla's method of utilizing ambient
>  >air temperatures to boil low pressure water to produce steam. This
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> ADVERTISEMENT
> <111704_1104_g_300250a.gif>
> <l.gif>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>  •  To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/usa-tesla/
>  
>  • 	 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> usa-tesla-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  
>  • 	 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>

sorry Will,
When I open my mail the attachment appears as part of the email. If you are interested in the drawing, I can email to you directly. I can also do gif, photoshop, pict or open with explorer.
To briefly describe the drawing: It is a Tesla turbine located between two tanks of water. Each tank can be either heated or cooled to produce steam or a condensation chamber. Steam is produced in the hot side, and condensed in the cold side. Since the turbine can turn either direction, the steam performs work each time it is transferred from on tank to the other, as it passes through the turbine each time. This process can be accomplished at ambient temperatures due to the partial vacuum maintained in the closed system. If a more rapid transferr of steam is desired,or higher pressure is maintined, then solar heat may be added to the hot side. If more rapid condensation is required, ammonia in a copper coil can be used to transfer heat to a storage tank. The heat is stored for times when ambient temperature drops to levels too low to evaporate water at current system pressure. It takes about 4 4x8' solar collectors to produce solar steam at STP. At 20 hg that number is cut in half or by 3/4.
Paul
On Nov 27, 2004, at 9:43 PM, herzog@... wrote:

Will we ever learn that attachments mean that the person is only talking to
themselves.  The List does NOT pass them on.
    So if you can't add that a cool lake water, or hole in the ground, or
tower to heaven is required to get the cool side, we will never know
whereof it is that one doesn't write about. If it is not worth writing
about all the way, is it worth teasing?  Popular Science is more explicit.
Will
At 02:59 AM 11/27/04, you wrote:
>    Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 02:36:13 -0600
>Subject: Solar Tesla Turbine
>
>
>The attached diagram illustrates Tesla's method of utilizing ambient
>air temperatures to boil low pressure water to produce steam. This ...







Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

ADVERTISEMENT

<111704_1104_g_300250a.gif>
<l.gif>

Yahoo! Groups Links

• To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/usa-tesla/
 
• To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
usa-tesla-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
 
• Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

sorry Will,
When I open my mail the attachment appears as part of the email. If you are interested in the drawing, I can email to you directly. I can also do gif, photoshop, pict or open with explorer.
To briefly describe the drawing: It is a Tesla turbine located between two tanks of water. Each tank can be either heated or cooled to produce steam or a condensation chamber. Steam is produced in the hot side, and condensed in the cold side. Since the turbine can turn either direction, the steam performs work each time it is transferred from on tank to the other, as it passes through the turbine each time. This process can be accomplished at ambient temperatures due to the partial vacuum maintained in the closed system. If a more rapid transferr of steam is desired,or higher pressure is maintined, then solar heat may be added to the hot side. If more rapid condensation is required, ammonia in a copper coil can be used to transfer heat to a storage tank. The heat is stored for times when ambient temperature drops to levels too low to evaporate water at current system pressure. It takes about 4 4x8' solar collectors to produce solar steam at STP. At 20 hg that number is cut in half or by 3/4.
Paul
On Nov 27, 2004, at 9:43 PM, herzog@... wrote:

Will we ever learn that attachments mean that the person is only talking to
themselves.  The List does NOT pass them on.
    So if you can't add that a cool lake water, or hole in the ground, or
tower to heaven is required to get the cool side, we will never know
whereof it is that one doesn't write about. If it is not worth writing
about all the way, is it worth teasing?  Popular Science is more explicit.
Will
At 02:59 AM 11/27/04, you wrote:
>    Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 02:36:13 -0600
>Subject: Solar Tesla Turbine
>
>
>The attached diagram illustrates Tesla's method of utilizing ambient
>air temperatures to boil low pressure water to produce steam. This ...







Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

ADVERTISEMENT

<111704_1104_g_300250a.gif>
<l.gif>

Yahoo! Groups Links

• To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/usa-tesla/
 
• To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
usa-tesla-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
 
• Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

"sorry Will,
When I open my mail the attachment appears as part of the email"

	 Opened fine here on Netscape, just as Paul says.  Anyone contemplating
such a scheme should realize that it will have a very low thermal
efficiency due to the low "delta T" between source and sink.  Look up
"Carnot efficiency".  Very large plants required to produce relatively
small amounts of power.  A number of experimental systems like this have
been built over the years; they used the temperature difference between
the sea surface and the bottom.  I don't remember reading how much of
the output had to be used to run the pumps to keep the pressure low.

Ed

Here's the problem: Some time ago, Yahoo changed its protocols with regards
to the digest format. They do not accept attachments at all. Some speculate
that this had something to do with porn deliveries by other sites being seen
by minors. Regardless, the change was made, and the only person who can see
the attachments to their messages now are the ones who sent them in the
first place. There is only one workaround that I have seen so far. Paste a
link into your message to a shared folder. If you have a Yahoo ID, you also
have a briefcase. Put your picture there, link to it, and anyone on line
will be able to see what you're talking about.

LarryH

[Sample]
http://f1.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/suspendor/lst?.dir=/Mail+Attachments&.vi
ew=l
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1734

     sorry Will,
         When I open my mail the attachment appears as part of the email.
   If you are interested in the drawing, I can email to you directly.  I
can also do gif, photoshop, pict or open with explorer.
To briefly describe the drawing:   It is a Tesla turbine located
between two tanks of water.  Each tank can be either heated or cooled
to produce steam or a condensation chamber.  Steam is produced in the
hot side, and condensed in the cold side. Since the turbine can turn
either direction, the steam performs work each time it is transferred
from on tank to the other, as it passes through the turbine each time.
This process can be accomplished at ambient temperatures due to the
partial vacuum maintained in the closed system. If a more rapid
transferr of steam is desired,or higher pressure is maintined,  then
solar heat may be added to the hot side.  If more rapid condensation is
required, ammonia in a copper coil can be used to transfer heat to a
storage tank.  The heat is stored for times when ambient temperature
drops to levels too low to evaporate water at current system pressure.
   It takes about 4 4x8' solar collectors to produce solar steam at STP.
At 20 hg that number is cut in half or by 3/4.
Paul

Here's the problem: Some time ago, Yahoo changed its protocols with regards
to the digest format. They do not accept attachments at all. Some speculate
that this had something to do with porn deliveries by other sites being seen
by minors. Regardless, the change was made, and the only person who can see
the attachments to their messages now are the ones who sent them in the
first place. There is only one workaround that I have seen so far. Paste a
link into your message to a shared folder. If you have a Yahoo ID, you also
have a briefcase. Put your picture there, link to it, and anyone on line
will be able to see what you're talking about.

LarryH

[Sample]
http://f1.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/suspendor/lst?.dir=/Mail+Attachments&.vi
ew=l
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1734

    sorry Will,
        When I open my mail the attachment appears as part of the email.
  If you are interested in the drawing, I can email to you directly.  I
can also do gif, photoshop, pict or open with explorer.
To briefly describe the drawing:   It is a Tesla turbine located
between two tanks of water.  Each tank can be either heated or cooled
to produce steam or a condensation chamber.  Steam is produced in the
hot side, and condensed in the cold side. Since the turbine can turn
either direction, the steam performs work each time it is transferred
from on tank to the other, as it passes through the turbine each time.
This process can be accomplished at ambient temperatures due to the
partial vacuum maintained in the closed system. If a more rapid
transferr of steam is desired,or higher pressure is maintined,  then
solar heat may be added to the hot side.  If more rapid condensation is
required, ammonia in a copper coil can be used to transfer heat to a
storage tank.  The heat is stored for times when ambient temperature
drops to levels too low to evaporate water at current system pressure.
  It takes about 4 4x8' solar collectors to produce solar steam at STP.
At 20 hg that number is cut in half or by 3/4.
Paul

Here's the problem: Some time ago, Yahoo changed its protocols with regards
to the digest format. They do not accept attachments at all. Some speculate
that this had something to do with porn deliveries by other sites being seen
by minors. Regardless, the change was made, and the only person who can see
the attachments to their messages now are the ones who sent them in the
first place. There is only one workaround that I have seen so far. Paste a
link into your message to a shared folder. If you have a Yahoo ID, you also
have a briefcase. Put your picture there, link to it, and anyone on line
will be able to see what you're talking about.

LarryH

[Sample]
http://f1.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/suspendor/lst?.dir=/Mail+Attachments&.vi
ew=l
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1734

    sorry Will,
        When I open my mail the attachment appears as part of the email.
  If you are interested in the drawing, I can email to you directly.  I
can also do gif, photoshop, pict or open with explorer.
To briefly describe the drawing:   It is a Tesla turbine located
between two tanks of water.  Each tank can be either heated or cooled
to produce steam or a condensation chamber.  Steam is produced in the
hot side, and condensed in the cold side. Since the turbine can turn
either direction, the steam performs work each time it is transferred
from on tank to the other, as it passes through the turbine each time.
This process can be accomplished at ambient temperatures due to the
partial vacuum maintained in the closed system. If a more rapid
transferr of steam is desired,or higher pressure is maintined,  then
solar heat may be added to the hot side.  If more rapid condensation is
required, ammonia in a copper coil can be used to transfer heat to a
storage tank.  The heat is stored for times when ambient temperature
drops to levels too low to evaporate water at current system pressure.
  It takes about 4 4x8' solar collectors to produce solar steam at STP.
At 20 hg that number is cut in half or by 3/4.
Paul

Thanks for the explanation.
quoting myself:
  >      So if you can't add that a cool lake water, or hole in the  ground,
or  tower to heaven is required to get the cool side,......

Well I like the above ideas better than just twin towers with so much
external work, vacuum pumps, etc,  required to heat or cool; but they have
all been tried already.
end

If you'll notice, the file you posted was 'not stored'. You are the
only one that can read your attachment. Sorry. I know it's
inconvenient, but what can we do?

--LarryH

--- In usa-tesla@yahoogroups.com, Jim Farrer <jfarrer@b...> wrote:
>Larry, I don't believe you are correct.  I just replied to your
email, marked it
"Please do not reply,"  and attached a picture file.  hen Yahoo
Groups sent me
my copy, the attachment came through loud and clear.

I claim that what I said a couple days ago is correct;  namely that
Yahoo
groups DOES send the attachments to all recipients, but does not keep
them
in their Archive.

Attached is my test picture file.

If this is not true, please let me know.

In closing, Yahoo Groups gives us a 20 MB permanent disk file to
store .TXT files,
and a 30 MB permanent disk file to store picture files.

Jim Farrer


[bottom line:]


Attachment (not stored)
UNTITL~1.JPG
Type: image/jpeg